2024 Rookie Minicamp, OTA's & Training Camp

[Refugee]

23 minutes ago, Brat&Beer said:

Packers WR's taken in the 2nd round from 2006-2023. The gap between Adams and Watson is perplexing considering the success rate:

2006: Greg Jennings

2008: Jordy Nelson

2011: Randall Cobb

2014: Davante Adams

2022: Christian Watson

2023: Jayden Reed

Packers 2nd round picks between Adams and Watson:

2015: Quinten Rollins

2016: Jason Spriggs

2017: Josh Jones

2018: Josh Jackson

2019: Elgton Jenkins

2020: AJ Dillon

2021: Josh Myers

It would likely not be as perplexing if we look at who was available in those years. Most of the time there was not a high quality WR there when the Pack was up to bat in those drafts. Yes, a few years guys like McLaurin and Kupp fell into the 3rd but usually the cream of the crop is long gone within a few spots into the second round. Some years, like with Jordy of Watson we were able to trade into that part of the draft but it’s not always easy to move in the higher rounds. 

Edited August 5 by Refugee

[Brat&Beer]

Thompson and Gutekunst have both proven to be pretty adept to moving around the board. Jennings, Nelson, Watson and Reed were all drafted after a draft day trade was made. Not sure about Adams. 

[Brat&Beer]

10 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Bullard seems to be showing his worth so far from what I’ve read… is this true?

His first 2 weeks have been very good.

[Refugee]

7 minutes ago, Brat&Beer said:

Thompson and Gutekunst have both proven to be pretty adept to moving around the board. Jennings, Nelson, Watson and Reed were all drafted after a draft day trade was made. Not sure about Adams. 

Overall I’ve been very happy with the moves made on draft day. More often than not the early moves have either been a move back or a very small jump forward. TT’s last drafts did hurt us, though. 2017 will always be remembered for the trade back blunder when TJ Watt was right there, but also JuJu, Kupp, Godwin and Golliday were all receivers readily available to the pack in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that year. No going back and it’s easy to be a draft expert a few years after the fact but that year was definitely a setback. 

[Old Guy]

I'm going to say it again. If the Packers are pretty comfortable that Melton, Heath and Dubois can step in and be NFL WRs, we should move either Watson or Doubs at the end of this year. I'm making an assumption Wicks and Reed are legit. I don't think that is too much of a stretch. 

I'm hoping Watson is past his hammy issues and if so, he's likely the one I keep.

I have no idea what either of them would fetch in the trade market but would assume you could get a round higher in the trade market than they would garner in free agency at the end of the 25 season. 

Then draft a couple of WRs in 2025. Doesn't have to be a 1st or 2nd round pick either. 

Edited August 5 by Old Guy

[Refugee]

Just now, Old Guy said:

I'm going to say it again. If the Packers are pretty comfortable that Melton, Heath and Dubois can step in and be NFL WRs, we should move either Watson or Doubs at the end of this year. I'm making an assumption Wicks and Reed are legit. I don't think that is too much of a stretch. 

I'm hoping Watson is past his hammy issues and if so, he's likely the one I keep.

I have no idea what either of them would fetch in the trade market but would assume you could get a round higher in the trade market than they would garner in free agency at the end of the 25 season. 

Then draft a couple of WRs in 2025. Doesn't have to be a 1st or 2nd round pick either. 

Counterpoint, if Watson does stay healthy and has a monster season he would be a coveted trade piece. Doubs will likely have less flashy plays but is more reliable and he’s quickly becoming a guy who is in tune with QB1. He made some critical 3rd and 4th downs for us last year. It would still be an expensive second contract because the position demands it but maybe not as much as a Ferrari like Watson. We can try to find our speedster through the draft or bring in a guy like MVS (who was recently cut) as a role player to take the top off while our shiftier guys work the rest of the field. 

[St Vince]

On 8/4/2024 at 6:16 PM, thrILL! said:

You really went there? Packers fans were complaining for years how McCarthys system was old, stale, and wanted a change with a different scheme.

If we're honest honest Rodgers only had 3 years of elite WRs. Good not elite from 2013 to 2017. Average from 2018 to 2022 only because of Davante.

Rodgers never had a elite receiving TE after Finley. Richard Rodgers was slow and offered no run after the catch. Bennet was a bust in GB. Jared Cook was decent for one year but wasn't brought back. Jimmy Graham was meh to bad. Jace Sternberger was garbage. Tonyan had a few good but not great years. Lewis was just a Blocker. Deguara never developed into anything. Tyler Davis wasn't a receiving option for Rodgers.

Rodgers WRs. After an old declining Nelson and Cobb, they only had Adams and a bunch of meh late rounders, and UDFA.

Rodgers had Adams and a bunch of jags at the end of his tenure. Rodgers elevated Lazard and MVS. They're both non factors now.

Rodgers weapons 2015 trough 2022.

Jarrett Boykin

Jeff Janis

Malik Taylor 

Juwan Winfree 

Trevor Davis 

Jared Abbrederis

Geronimo Allison

Darrius Shepherd 

Amari Rodgers 

Jake kumerow

Reggie Begelton

MVS 

Lazard 

St Brown

Sammy Watkins 

Two rookies in 2022

None of these receivers amounted to anything after they left GB, including Adams.

Davante didn't become great until his 3rd year. People wanted him cut his rookie season. Jordy wasn't the same after the ACL. Cobb was let go after his play declined.

I'm not even a Rodgers apologist. But I have to be honest, during his tenure as QB1 all the resources went to the defense and the offense was neglected.

Even you have to admit that's not a star studded group of names. It was criminal what Rodgers had to throw to, and For him to get  multiple MVP honors throwing to that garbage should make you even more impressed with him.

Love on the other hand was put in a much better position to achieve. He's got weapons galore and a great offensive mind that will always put him in good situations. 

Edited August 6 by St Vince

[incognito_man]

40 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

I'm going to say it again. If the Packers are pretty comfortable that Melton, Heath and Dubois can step in and be NFL WRs, we should move either Watson or Doubs at the end of this year. I'm making an assumption Wicks and Reed are legit. I don't think that is too much of a stretch. 

I'm hoping Watson is past his hammy issues and if so, he's likely the one I keep.

I have no idea what either of them would fetch in the trade market but would assume you could get a round higher in the trade market than they would garner in free agency at the end of the 25 season. 

Then draft a couple of WRs in 2025. Doesn't have to be a 1st or 2nd round pick either. 

No chance. 

It would be dumb to take away a cheap great/elite offensive player for a year with this roster. We're in win now mode, you don't trade away cheap talent.

[PossibleCabbage]

51 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

It would be dumb to take away a cheap great/elite offensive player for a year with this roster. We're in win now mode, you don't trade away cheap talent.

I also don't think you can get that much in trade for a WR who's not like an elite guy.  Like Elijah Moore packaged with a 3rd for a 2nd.,Chiefs got Kadarius Toney for a 3rd and a 6th., etc.

I don't think you really want to blow up good chemistry to get like "an extra 3rd and a 7th."

[Old Guy]

8 hours ago, incognito_man said:

No chance. 

It would be dumb to take away a cheap great/elite offensive player for a year with this roster. We're in win now mode, you don't trade away cheap talent.

The way college football is played now produces a ton of talented WRs every year for the past several years. Some wash out because of terrible teams with terrible QBs. Put in a good environment they can thrive. 

If Melton and Dubois or Heath prove very worthy of playing time, it is a no brainer. 

7 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I also don't think you can get that much in trade for a WR who's not like an elite guy.  Like Elijah Moore packaged with a 3rd for a 2nd.,Chiefs got Kadarius Toney for a 3rd and a 6th., etc.

I don't think you really want to blow up good chemistry to get like "an extra 3rd and a 7th."

You picked two guys whose drafting teams didn't want them because they were a problem. Sort of hard to compare those situations to what I'm suggesting. 

Toney has been a complete bust, probably a roster bubble guy this year. Moore has been just OK. His catch % has been under 60% each of his three years. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

12 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

Thompson and Gutekunst have both proven to be pretty adept to moving around the board. Jennings, Nelson, Watson and Reed were all drafted after a draft day trade was made. Not sure about Adams. 

I'm pretty sure Watson would have been a first round pick except the Vikes didn't want to trade their first with the Packers that year. They (the Vikes) had another pick at the top of the 2nd which they did choose to trade to the Packers for Watson.

For anyone who thinks the Packers will not part with a first for a WR, I think they are wrong. If the value is there they will take one. It's just there are usually positions they want more, like corners or OTs or pass rushers.

Edited August 5 by OneTwoSixFive

[Old Guy]

7 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

I'm pretty sure Watson would have been a first round pick except the Vikes didn't want to trade their first with the Packers that year. They (the Vikes) had another pick at the top of the 2nd which they did choose to trade for Watson.

For anyone who thinks the Packers will not part with a first for a WR, I think they are wrong. If the value is there they will take one. It's just there are usually positions they want more, like corners or OTs or pass rushers.

The way the Packers are drafting WRs is working pretty darn well. Why change it? There are always good WRs to be had in round 2-3-4, even later. Scouting departments just have to be good enough to find them. 

The Packers' scouting department has been good enough. 

[Mazrimiv]

10 hours ago, Old Guy said:

I'm going to say it again. If the Packers are pretty comfortable that Melton, Heath and Dubois can step in and be NFL WRs, we should move either Watson or Doubs at the end of this year. I'm making an assumption Wicks and Reed are legit. I don't think that is too much of a stretch. 

I'm hoping Watson is past his hammy issues and if so, he's likely the one I keep.

I have no idea what either of them would fetch in the trade market but would assume you could get a round higher in the trade market than they would garner in free agency at the end of the 25 season. 

Then draft a couple of WRs in 2025. Doesn't have to be a 1st or 2nd round pick either. 

This GB roster will be peaking next season, and should be near the top of any SB contenders list for 2025.  Next off-season, Gute's focus will be on how to add the final pieces, not remove them.  I don't think Gute will be weakening a legit SB level roster by trading away players who are good enough to bring back a RD2/RD3 pick.

EDIT: A possible exception to this would be an actual player for player trade, but I honestly have a tough time remembering the last time GB made a significant trade that was based on players rather than picks.

Edited August 5 by Mazrimiv

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, Mazrimiv said:

This GB roster will be peaking next season, and should be near the top of any SB contenders list for 2025.  Next off-season, Gute's focus will be on how to add the final pieces, not remove them.  I don't think Gute will be weakening a legit SB level roster by trading away players who are good enough to bring back a RD2/RD3 pick.

EDIT: A possible exception to this would be an actual player for player trade, but I honestly have a tough time remembering the last time GB made a significant trade that was based on players rather than picks.

Fair point! I think it depends on how big of a talent gap between say, Doubs and Dubois/Heath after this year. It may be a very large drop off which would mean you roll with Doubs. It may be Wicks has clearly passed Doubs and say Dubois his proven very capable to taking Doubs snaps. 

It is all very hypothetical at this point. 

[Mazrimiv]

The issue for the WR's behind Melton on the depth chart is getting game reps.  I'm not seeing how they would be able to close the gap on the top 4 WR's without significant injuries.  But if there are significant injuries among the top 4, those guys wouldn't have any trade value after the season, so the idea of trading them for anything of value still doesn't work.