AP names Gardner Minshew starting QB

[ronjon1990]

4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

He literally did it in the SEC. Definitely not future UPS drivers. Nick Saban called him one of the 2 best skill guys in the draft along with Nabers who went 6. 

To be fair, Nick Saban also said of Mac Jones:

"He’s a very intelligent guy, he’s very instinctive, he does a great job of preparing for a game, and can go out and execute and do what coaches want him to do."

This being the Mac Jones who wound up in the dog house for not preparing, and ultimately lost his job for neither executing nor doing what coaches wanted him to do. 

Point Frankie is making, and I can agree with, is there's a lot of people fantasy booking Bowers in an offense and using said fantasy booking to downplay any concern or criticism regarding the pick and future outlook. I don't think it'll take the 5 years Frankie wants to know whether he's worth a damn or not, but he hasn't played a single regular season snap and barely played in the preseason.

Maybe some should pipe down on the "Hey, idiot, he can play WR, TE, RB, FB, K, P, CB, S, waterboy, and act as the defacto GM, DUH!", considering he hasn't actually done anything yet? A lot of the same talk was used with Ferrell, Abram, Arnette, Tyree, Leatherwood, etc lately, to varying degrees before they ultimately flopped. Pretending Bowers is flop-proof is silly. 

Ferrell was a "great fit", would at least be "an 8 sack per year guy", could play 'inside and out". 

Abram was a "tone setter", a "thumper", "did it against the best competition". 

Armette was "pro ready", "super talented", "did it against great competition". 

Leatherwood was "an award winning OT from Alabama", could "play OG or OT effectively", "in no way a reach"  

Tyree was "a beast", "dripping talent", "not just a DE, but could play DT too", a "specimen". 

Feankie's point is that, beyond the typical platitudes afforded to our 1st round picks, nobody actually has any proof he's not just the next flavor of the week Raiders 1st rounder....except for repeating "no, he's just not. Look at everything he can do!". Look at what? He's played zero snaps and we have no actual idea how he's going to be used or if he can...you know....actually hang in the NFL. Being a fan and optimistic about a player is all well and good, but with how some people ride Bowers' jock, you'd think he already had 10,000 yards and 100 TDs to his name. 

Let's see him actually play. I remember very vividly being told I was absolutely insane and knew not a thing about football for questioning the clear and unstoppable greatness of Trevor Lawrence and his 5 projected Superbowls in 5 seasons nonsense. He with the "unlimited potential", the "greatest prospect to ever walk the planet", "God's gift to football", "The Prince Who Was Promised", walking talking Sunshine himself. Turns out, he's pretty mid and likely expected to send the ESPN guys some nifty Christmas presents, because without them hyping him up beyond any reasonable level, no way his production warranted his new contract without Duval county going into a state of emergency from riots. 

FWIW, I grabbed Bowers on my FF team, so I want him to do great and sort of expect him to be a focus point of the offense that ultimately warrants the hype and pick and all the sweettalk. But let's take a step back and make sure he's not just Charles Clay Gone Georgia, yeah? 

Edited September 5 by ronjon1990

[big_palooka]

9 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

To be fair, Nick Saban also said of Mac Jones:

"He’s a very intelligent guy, he’s very instinctive, he does a great job of preparing for a game, and can go out and execute and do what coaches want him to do."

This being the Mac Jones who wound up in the dog house for not preparing, and ultimately lost his job for neither executing nor doing what coaches wanted him to do. 

Point Frankie is making, and I can agree with, is there's a lot of people fantasy booking Bowers in an offense and using said fantasy booking to downplay any concern or criticism regarding the pick and future outlook. I don't think it'll take the 5 years Frankie wants to know whether he's worth a damn or not, but he hasn't played a single regular season snap and barely played in the preseason.

Maybe some should pipe down on the "Hey, idiot, he can play WR, TE, RB, FB, K, P, CB, S, waterboy, and act as the defacto GM, DUH!", considering he hasn't actually done anything yet? A lot of the same talk was used with Ferrell, Abram, Arnette, Tyree, Leatherwood, etc lately, to varying degrees before they ultimately flopped. Pretending Bowers is flop-proof is silly. 

Ferrell was a "great fit", would at least be "an 8 sack per year guy", could play 'inside and out". 

Abram was a "tone setter", a "thumper", "did it against the best competition". 

Armette was "pro ready", "super talented", "did it against great competition". 

Leatherwood was "an award winning OT from Alabama", could "play OG or OT effectively", "in no way a reach"  

Tyree was "a beast", "dripping talent", "not just a DE, but could play DT too", a "specimen". 

Feankie's point is that, beyond the typical platitudes afforded to our 1st round picks, nobody actually has any proof he's not just the next flavor of the week Raiders 1st rounder....except for repeating "no, he's just not. Look at everything he can do!". Look at what? He's played zero snaps and we have no actual idea how he's going to be used or if he can...you know....actually hang in the NFL. Being a fan and optimistic about a player is all well and good, but with how some people ride Bowers' jock, you'd think he already had 10,000 yards and 100 TDs to his name. 

Let's see him actually play. I remember very vividly being told I was absolutely insane and knew not a thing about football for questioning the clear and unstoppable greatness of Trevor Lawrence and his 5 projected Superbowls in 5 seasons nonsense. He with the "unlimited potential", the "greatest prospect to ever walk the planet", "God's gift to football", "The Prince Who Was Promised", walking talking Sunshine himself. Turns out, he's pretty mid and likely expected to send the ESPN guys some nifty Christmas presents, because without them hyping him up beyond any reasonable level, no way his production warranted his new contract without Duval county going into a state of emergency from riots. 

FWIW, I grabbed Bowers on my FF team, so I want him to do great and sort of expect him to be a focus point of the offense that ultimately warrants the hype and pick and all the sweettalk. But let's take a step back and make sure he's not just Charles Clay Gone Georgia, yeah? 

Except he's was exceptional in the SEC starting as a true freshman. And he has the athletic profile to backup what he put on tape.

This entire post is a reach. Comparing him to past Raider first round picks, who the majority knew were flawed and overdrafted proves what exactly?

Does the player have to play, yes. But the "he hasn't done anything yet" stuff is lazy. No draft pick has, but I would bet guys who showed out in college and have the athletic profile to match will succeed. Harrison Jr, Nabors, Odunze haven't done anything yet, but it's pretty easy to see they are going to be damn good football players. Brock is a pretty easy projection as well.

Edited September 5 by big_palooka

[Jerry]

9 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Ferrell was a "great fit", would at least be "an 8 sack per year guy", could play 'inside and out". 

Abram was a "tone setter", a "thumper", "did it against the best competition". 

Armette was "pro ready", "super talented", "did it against great competition". 

Leatherwood was "an award winning OT from Alabama", could "play OG or OT effectively", "in no way a reach"  

Tyree was "a beast", "dripping talent", "not just a DE, but could play DT too", a "specimen". 

I think you're overexaggerating how we talked about most of these players.  I mean you're close, but you're pushing it.  No one said Ferrell would be "at least" an 8 sack per year guy.  Most were saying he would average 8 sacks.  Arnette had short arms.  Leatherwood was a reach, and most people wanted 1-2 other OTs that were available.  Anyone that watched Tyree's tape (YouTube highlights) knew he was a project.  

But yeah, Bowers has to produce before we crown him.  I believe in him more than the rest of the players you listed, but I get where you're coming from.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Except he's was exceptional in the SEC starting as a true freshman. And he has the athletic profile to backup what he put on tape.

This entire post is a reach. Comparing him to past Raider first round picks, who the majority knew were flawed and overdrafted proves what exactly?

Does the player have to play, yes. But the "he hasn't done anything yet" stuff is lazy. No draft pick has, but I would bet guys who showed out in college and have the athletic profile to match will succeed. Harrison Jr, Nabors, Odunze haven't done anything yet, but it's pretty easy to see they are going to be damn good football players. Brock is a pretty easy projection as well.

Many an SEC player was great in college and did zilch in the pros. That's lazy. 

Saying he hasn't done anything yet is lazy? Name it then. What has he done? What can you show other than that you're a fan of his? I'll wait. 

I'd bet the number of guys who had great athletic testing and still flopped in the pros far outnumber the success stories. If you have any proof to the contrary, lay ot out. 

It's easy, you say? Well sh*t! I guess there's never been classes full of major letdowns! I'm old enough to remember people creaming themselves over Jerry Jeudy, Jameson Williams, Eddie Lacey, Trent Richardson, etc. Excise me for not being impressed by your latest lazy take.

[big_palooka]

10 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Many an SEC player was great in college and did zilch in the pros. That's lazy. 

Saying he hasn't done anything yet is lazy? Name it then. What has he done? What can you show other than that you're a fan of his? I'll wait. 

I'd bet the number of guys who had great athletic testing and still flopped in the pros far outnumber the success stories. If you have any proof to the contrary, lay ot out. 

It's easy, you say? Well sh*t! I guess there's never been classes full of major letdowns! I'm old enough to remember people creaming themselves over Jerry Jeudy, Jameson Williams, Eddie Lacey, Trent Richardson, etc. Excise me for not being impressed by your latest lazy take.

So basically college doesn't matter I guess? That's your take?

[ronjon1990]

23 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I think you're overexaggerating how we talked about most of these players.  I mean you're close, but you're pushing it.  No one said Ferrell would be "at least" an 8 sack per year guy.  Most were saying he would average 8 sacks.  Arnette had short arms.  Leatherwood was a reach, and most people wanted 1-2 other OTs that were available.  Anyone that watched Tyree's tape (YouTube highlights) knew he was a project.  

But yeah, Bowers has to produce before we crown him.  I believe in him more than the rest of the players you listed, but I get where you're coming from.

My point is there's a tendency round here to crown guys if you liken them, and make smartass comments towards anyone who disagrees. We've seen it over and over with 1st round picks over the last few years, to varying degrees. 

It's telling, given that I've gone on the record saying I think Bowers will be a damn good player, and yet for some of the fan boys that's not enough. Saying there's as good a chance he busts as there is with any other player ever is "lazy", but saying he'll be good because he was good in college apparently isn't? Name a 1st rounder who arguably wasn't pretty phenomenal in college. 

I don't want Bowers to bust for a million reasons, but holy crap if he does, there aren't enough crows in the world to put on plates to dish out. I just don't get the dogmatic adversity to even admitting that there's just as much a chance he busts or simply never lives up to the hype. Even more telling, it's not as if anyone has outright said he sucks, rather there's a pretty decent chance our staff doesn't utilize him correctly to begin with, rendering the pick pointless if he doesn't become a long term fixture for us. Like I said, we can play Madden Fantasy all day and talk about how we will sub Bowers in at TE, RB, FB, WR, etc, but....our OC is a lameduck milquetoast dweeb nobody has any faith in. 

Sort of weird to see people crap on Getsy as our OC but then project him as some savant specifically when it comes to Bowers, no? Folks think he's not a great OC, but think he's going to maximize Bowers, because something, something reasons? 

When guys can't even take a "wait and see" approach to a guy with 0 professional snaps to his name without getting blasted.....there's a problem lol

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

So basically college doesn't matter I guess? That's your take?

What someone did in college doesn't matter in the pros, yes, precisely. 

If it did, Tim Tebow would be an all time great and Ron Dayne would've lit the world on fire. 

When a guy does it on Sunday, he does it on Sunday. Saturday doesn't matter. 

[big_palooka]

10 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

What someone did in college doesn't matter in the pros, yes, precisely. 

If it did, Tim Tebow would be an all time great and Ron Dayne would've lit the world on fire. 

When a guy does it on Sunday, he does it on Sunday. Saturday doesn't matter. 

So what is your argument exactly? We can't project how we think a player will do in the pros?

You're comparing a highly regarded player, viewed as a top 5 overall player in the class to recent Raider draft bust who everyone recognized as reaches when they were made. I legit don't know what you are driving at. 

Your Tebow example is flat to as most knew he didn't posses the arm or mechanics to be an NFL QB. 

Could Brock flop?..... sure. Are the odds more likely he won't, yes. Why should we be confident in that? Because he showed the skill set and what he's strong in translates to the next level. 

I don't see anyone crowning so much as simply pointing out his strengths and why they will translate. And Frankie is taking it on the chin because he's a know it all who just wants to call him a TE and start preaching value while ignoring the >50% of his game not played from the TE alignment. 

[MrOaktown_56]

31 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

What someone did in college doesn't matter in the pros, yes, precisely. 

If it did, Tim Tebow would be an all time great and Ron Dayne would've lit the world on fire. 

When a guy does it on Sunday, he does it on Sunday. Saturday doesn't matter. 

So why even discuss at all? I’m just saying the guy has lit up college football in the hardest conference since his freshman year. Could it not translate? Maybe. But he has all the skills beyond just production that translate to the NFL IMHO 

[Jerry]

30 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

My point is there's a tendency round here to crown guys if you liken them, and make smartass comments towards anyone who disagrees. We've seen it over and over with 1st round picks over the last few years, to varying degrees. 

It's telling, given that I've gone on the record saying I think Bowers will be a damn good player, and yet for some of the fan boys that's not enough. Saying there's as good a chance he busts as there is with any other player ever is "lazy", but saying he'll be good because he was good in college apparently isn't? Name a 1st rounder who arguably wasn't pretty phenomenal in college. 

I don't want Bowers to bust for a million reasons, but holy crap if he does, there aren't enough crows in the world to put on plates to dish out. I just don't get the dogmatic adversity to even admitting that there's just as much a chance he busts or simply never lives up to the hype. Even more telling, it's not as if anyone has outright said he sucks, rather there's a pretty decent chance our staff doesn't utilize him correctly to begin with, rendering the pick pointless if he doesn't become a long term fixture for us. Like I said, we can play Madden Fantasy all day and talk about how we will sub Bowers in at TE, RB, FB, WR, etc, but....our OC is a lameduck milquetoast dweeb nobody has any faith in. 

Sort of weird to see people crap on Getsy as our OC but then project him as some savant specifically when it comes to Bowers, no? Folks think he's not a great OC, but think he's going to maximize Bowers, because something, something reasons? 

When guys can't even take a "wait and see" approach to a guy with 0 professional snaps to his name without getting blasted.....there's a problem lol

Yeah, I get what you're saying.  Hopefully Getsy is good, and Fields was the problem.  Lol.  Good news is that we are only 3 days away from Raiders' football.

[NCOUGHMAN]

12 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

To be fair, Nick Saban also said of Mac Jones:

"He’s a very intelligent guy, he’s very instinctive, he does a great job of preparing for a game, and can go out and execute and do what coaches want him to do."

This being the Mac Jones who wound up in the dog house for not preparing, and ultimately lost his job for neither executing nor doing what coaches wanted him to do. 

Point Frankie is making, and I can agree with, is there's a lot of people fantasy booking Bowers in an offense and using said fantasy booking to downplay any concern or criticism regarding the pick and future outlook. I don't think it'll take the 5 years Frankie wants to know whether he's worth a damn or not, but he hasn't played a single regular season snap and barely played in the preseason.

Maybe some should pipe down on the "Hey, idiot, he can play WR, TE, RB, FB, K, P, CB, S, waterboy, and act as the defacto GM, DUH!", considering he hasn't actually done anything yet? A lot of the same talk was used with Ferrell, Abram, Arnette, Tyree, Leatherwood, etc lately, to varying degrees before they ultimately flopped. Pretending Bowers is flop-proof is silly. 

Ferrell was a "great fit", would at least be "an 8 sack per year guy", could play 'inside and out". 

Abram was a "tone setter", a "thumper", "did it against the best competition". 

Armette was "pro ready", "super talented", "did it against great competition". 

Leatherwood was "an award winning OT from Alabama", could "play OG or OT effectively", "in no way a reach"  

Tyree was "a beast", "dripping talent", "not just a DE, but could play DT too", a "specimen". 

Feankie's point is that, beyond the typical platitudes afforded to our 1st round picks, nobody actually has any proof he's not just the next flavor of the week Raiders 1st rounder....except for repeating "no, he's just not. Look at everything he can do!". Look at what? He's played zero snaps and we have no actual idea how he's going to be used or if he can...you know....actually hang in the NFL. Being a fan and optimistic about a player is all well and good, but with how some people ride Bowers' jock, you'd think he already had 10,000 yards and 100 TDs to his name. 

Let's see him actually play. I remember very vividly being told I was absolutely insane and knew not a thing about football for questioning the clear and unstoppable greatness of Trevor Lawrence and his 5 projected Superbowls in 5 seasons nonsense. He with the "unlimited potential", the "greatest prospect to ever walk the planet", "God's gift to football", "The Prince Who Was Promised", walking talking Sunshine himself. Turns out, he's pretty mid and likely expected to send the ESPN guys some nifty Christmas presents, because without them hyping him up beyond any reasonable level, no way his production warranted his new contract without Duval county going into a state of emergency from riots. 

FWIW, I grabbed Bowers on my FF team, so I want him to do great and sort of expect him to be a focus point of the offense that ultimately warrants the hype and pick and all the sweettalk. But let's take a step back and make sure he's not just Charles Clay Gone Georgia, yeah? 

I’ll never forget Nick saban talking up rolando lol

[bucksavage1]

I think it was different when Saban was talking up his own players vs players he coached against 

Every college coach gonna talk up his own players 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

So why even discuss at all? I’m just saying the guy has lit up college football in the hardest conference since his freshman year. Could it not translate? Maybe. But he has all the skills beyond just production that translate to the NFL IMHO 

Because (and I don't blame Palooka for being enamored with what someone did before somewhere else as that was his boner for McDaniels) I'm not saying that it can't be discussed or that projections can't be made. 

What I am saying is disregarding someone's take that said projections may be overstated and/or never come to fruition as "dumb" is silly- which, make no mistake, is what people have been railing Frankie for. 

[G]

On 9/3/2024 at 7:21 PM, Jeremy408 said:

To be honest I don't even know why the Bowers pick needs to be defended really lol

Actions speak louder than words...Ssshhh Brock is eating...And when our Offense is firing on 2 out of 8 cylinders. 

[bucksavage1]

21 minutes ago, G said:

Actions speak louder than words...Ssshhh Brock is eating...And when our Offense is firing on 2 out of 8 cylinders. 

Bowers is such a technician out there. Crisp routes, great hands