Jakuvious Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 4 hours ago, Soko said: It’s interesting because most of the FF crowd is onboard in terms of “wins aren’t a QB stat” because there’s so much out of their control. Meanwhile you have a HC who usually isn’t responsible for at least 50% of the playcalling, usually not in charge of player acquisition, sometimes not in charge of assistant coaches/coordinators, can’t actively control what does on after the ball is snapped - and yet the only thing we judge them on is W/L. I think it's because we have nothing else. We aren't privy enough to actually judge the work we do. I mean, we can see like, how competent they look at press conferences and if they understand analytics and clock management, but those things are tiny, portions of the job. We have the same issue with GMs. GMs are judged off of like, draft success and team wins. I guess they're kind of weighed on salary cap management, but most people honestly can't speak on that anyway. But like, judging GMs on draft classes is silly when we don't really know most of the time whether it's really good/bad draft picks versus good/bad player development. Sam Darnold was the kind of pick that gets a GM fired...until suddenly he's not. We just don't have much to go off of with these spots, honestly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football_Bachelor08 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: He coached for 29 years. In 29 years he won double digit games 20 times. Out of all those years he only won 6 or less games 4 times. FOUR. So for 25 out of his 29 years coaching his teams won 7 or more games. He’s won 8 super bowls between being a head coach and a coordinator. He had two super bowls on his resume’ before he ever coached Brady. He went to the playoffs with Mac Jones as his QB for Christ sakes lol. No he didn't. Those were Parcells's teams. This is like crediting Jim Cleamons for the Bulls dynasty in the '90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 1 hour ago, Football_Bachelor08 said: No he didn't. Those were Parcells's teams. This is like crediting Jim Cleamons for the Bulls dynasty in the '90s. Oh I didn’t realize coordinators have nothing to do with the team. I had no clue they weren’t needed to win super bowls… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 2 hours ago, CP3MVP said: If bill thought Brady was gonna be anything he wouldn’t have waited till round 6 to draft him and he wouldn’t have given Drew a long term deal. So basically Bill was just there? He gets no credit for anything according to you two? No credit for drafting Brady, no credit for wins or super bowls lol. Belichick sucks, Phil Jackson sucks, McVay is overrated lol. This is like the Sicilian scene from The Princess Bride. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starman Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 8 minutes ago, lavar703 said: So basically Bill was just there? He gets no credit for anything according to you two? No credit for drafting Brady, no credit for wins or super bowls lol. Belichick sucks, Phil Jackson sucks, McVay is overrated lol. This is like the Sicilian scene from The Princess Bride. “It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.” -Bill Murray 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 18 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: If a coach needs players to win he isn't a good coach. A real coach would get in there and win the game himself. Name a championship winning coach in any sport that succeeded without good/ great players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football_Bachelor08 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: So basically Bill was just there? He gets no credit for anything according to you two? No credit for drafting Brady, no credit for wins or super bowls lol. Belichick sucks, Phil Jackson sucks, McVay is overrated lol. This is like the Sicilian scene from The Princess Bride. Again, his record without Brady is abysmal. Adding further to this is the fact that his coaching tree has been atrocious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 Just now, Football_Bachelor08 said: Again, his record without Brady is abysmal. Adding further to this is the fact that his coaching tree has been atrocious. He had an 11-win season with Testaverde throwing more interceptions than TDs. He had an 11-win season with Matt Cassell and had a 10-win season with Mack Jones his rookie year. Now if you want to say he’s a bad GM I’ll give you that. His drafting always undermined his coaching but as far as coaching goes he’s absolutely on Mount Rushmore. Why does his coaching tree matter? Joe Gibbs is arguably the GOAT and his coaching tree did nothing either. Would you say Jay Gruden was an excellent coach? His coaching tree includes McVay and KOC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 This is like reading a real-time chicken vs egg conversation, except one person is dead set that the chicken came first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 9 hours ago, starman said: Or in 2016 when they started 3-1 with Garoppolo/Brissett before getting Brady back. Or hell, in 2001 sticking with Brady over Bledsoe was seen as a big risk at the time. Has everyone also forgotten the time when Reid was seen as a choke artist with abysmal time management skills? The gatekeeping on this topic is ridiculous. It is. Heck, even in 2016 prior to being the MVP runner up and winning the Super Bowl, a non inconsequential amount of people were crying that "Tom Brady is a system QB!" In the Top 10 QB All-Time conversations. It took Brady winning one in Tampa to FULLY shake that stigma. So many naysayers, even five rings in, said that any game manager QB would succeed in the Patriots organization. And yeah, seeing guys like Hoyer, Cassel, Garropolo, and Brisset do it didn't put an end to any of those talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 1 hour ago, Pugger said: Name a championship winning coach in any sport that succeeded without good/ great players. Pete Barrington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetzger Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 Tom Brady had his only losing season when Belichick wasn’t his coach 🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdpackfan22 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 We gonna ignore that Brady left to form the closest thing to a super team in the NFL? Bucs were the perfect situation for Brady to walk into. They had a great defense. Good weapons with Evans, Godwin, Brate and Howard. Had a top 15 draft pick to add OL talent. Oh and then they signed Gronk, Fournette, Suh and Antonio Brown on top of that. Meanwhile NE was left in cap hell from going all in during Brady's twilight years. No **** Brady was in a better position to win than Bill. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: He had an 11-win season with Testaverde throwing more interceptions than TDs. He had an 11-win season with Matt Cassell and had a 10-win season with Mack Jones his rookie year. Now if you want to say he’s a bad GM I’ll give you that. His drafting always undermined his coaching but as far as coaching goes he’s absolutely on Mount Rushmore. Exactly. People don't realize how bad the Browns were when he took over in 1991. They had just come off of a 3-13 season where they were 25th in defense, 17th in offense, next to last in points scored, and last in points allowed (the defense only had 32 sacks, and Michael Dean Perry had 1/3 of those himself on the way to being only one of two Pro Bowlers the team had that year). He turned that around by 1994 (only to have he who shall not be named destroy it). Edited October 11 by 7DnBrnc53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp0k2 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 1 hour ago, Football_Bachelor08 said: Adding further to this is the fact that his coaching tree has been atrocious. How does that make Belichick a bad coach? Wouldn't that make him a better coach since he had to pick up the slack for all of those scrubs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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