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Raves

CB Eli Apple, New York Giants

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Anyone who has looked in the NFL News forum lately knows that Eli has had some issues with the Giants and will likely be cut by them this offseason.  I know bringing in a guy with character concerns isn't likely to happen with this regime but a change of scenery might be just what he needs to get back on track, especially reuniting him with some of his former college teammates in Thomas, Lattimore, and Bell, specifically the last two who helped Ohio State have one of the best pass defenses in CFB when they were playing together.  Maybe if those 3 would put in a good word about Apple and talk about being able to control him, with a very incentive based contract incase his character issues are too much, we could get a top flight CB prospect for relatively cheap and massively upgrade our secondary.  I know several of us liked Apple coming out, and if he can get his head on straight then pairing him with Lattimore at CB would be a huge boost as I think he could handle guys like Sanu much better than Crawley when Apple is playing well.

 

Obviously this would come down to the coaching staff and even his former teammates who I'm sure would be consulted, believing it could work out well.

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Absoultely not... Talented kid but when the leader of your defense and fellow defensive back openly and publicly brands you a cancer its the redest of red flags IMO. Maybe the kid turns things around but im not opening my group of young talented defensive backs to the possibility of such a diatraction. 

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10 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Absoultely not... Talented kid but when the leader of your defense and fellow defensive back openly and publicly brands you a cancer its the redest of red flags IMO. Maybe the kid turns things around but im not opening my group of young talented defensive backs to the possibility of such a diatraction. 

A leader doesn't throw things out in the public liek that either.  Part of why the "leader" of our WRs got traded this past offseason.  Like I said if we were to go for him it would require that his former teammates to vouch that he wasn't always like that and that they can get him back on track.  If they don't vouch for him we don't do it.  If he won't take a prove it contract with specific language regarding his attitude, then we don't do it.  Plus we would know very early in training camp if he would work out or not and could just cut him if he does take a prove it contract, which if he wouldn't do, we don't do it.

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19 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Absoultely not... Talented kid but when the leader of your defense and fellow defensive back openly and publicly brands you a cancer its the redest of red flags IMO. Maybe the kid turns things around but im not opening my group of young talented defensive backs to the possibility of such a diatraction. 

IF they hadn't all played together at Ohio State I wouldn't even be considering it, but since they were all there together and seemingly worked well together, it just seemed like reuniting them might be a good for him as well as having that cohesion already there.

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34 minutes ago, Raves said:

IF they hadn't all played together at Ohio State I wouldn't even be considering it, but since they were all there together and seemingly worked well together, it just seemed like reuniting them might be a good for him as well as having that cohesion already there.

I understand your reasoning, but a lot has happened between his time at Ohio State and now (Pertaining to personal life). I don't really think it has anything to do with the kid's physical abilities either, but more of his current mental state. He's obviously having an extremely hard time coping with his family/personal life. Maybe being around some old teammates would help stabilize him a bit, but it won't make his outside football life strife disappear, which is where I think Eli's problems are stemming from. 

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3 minutes ago, SWATcha said:

I understand your reasoning, but a lot has happened between his time at Ohio State and now (Pertaining to personal life). I don't really think it has anything to do with the kid's physical abilities either, but more of his current mental state. He's obviously having an extremely hard time coping with his family/personal life. Maybe being around some old teammates would help stabilize him a bit, but it won't make his outside football life strife disappear, which is where I think Eli's problems are stemming from. 

Understandable but a stabilizing effect could help.  Like I said I don't want to sign him to soem big contract but more like 1 yr 2 mil deal with no guarantees so if we cut him we are on the hook for nothing and we can see where his mental aspect is early on through training camp ya know?

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Now this is just me assuming here, but if I had to guess Eli Apple views himself as a guy that should be a starting CB in the NFL. If we sign him, there's no way he starts over Lattimore, and also very little chance he starts over Crawley who has been an excellent number 2 CB this season for us. That leaves him battling with PJ Williams for playing time. I feel he would likely be a ticking time bomb in this scenario, and would become very disgruntled here. Thus making him a cancer in our locker room and potentially setting us back more than anything.

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I think ability wise Apple is much better than Crawley, but obviously like I said I don't wnat to put us in a situation where if he does end up being a cancer we have to keep him due ot his contract and would rather have an out if we needed one.  I think in our system he would do very well and would start over Crawley, IF his head is in the right place, which if it's not we'd be cutting him anyways.

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1 hour ago, Raves said:

I think ability wise Apple is much better than Crawley, but obviously like I said I don't wnat to put us in a situation where if he does end up being a cancer we have to keep him due ot his contract and would rather have an out if we needed one.  I think in our system he would do very well and would start over Crawley, IF his head is in the right place, which if it's not we'd be cutting him anyways.

I can't say I agree with that. We are talking about 2 guys that are of similar height/weight/athletic ability (6', 190lbs or so, low 4.4 40 time, etc.). The key difference is Apple was drafted high, and Ken Crawley has been a late bloomer. Obviously the NFL is a what have you done for me lately type league, and draft position doesn't always determine talent (Sherman, Butler, Norman, etc.). So far to my knowledge Apple hasn't done much since entering the NFL. Crawley on the other hand, has had to prove himself/work his way up the ladder, and has done a great job since earning his spot.

There are very few CB duo's I'd take over Lattimore/Crawley going forward (Ramsey/Bouye might be the only one I can think of).  Apple has a 73.6 PFF rating this year. Crawley has a 84.5 PFF rating this year. Ken Crawley has 14 passes defensed this year (12 games). Eli Apple has 15 the past 2 years combined (25 games). Just watching Crawley play, he appears to have a bright future ahead of him as a starter for us. He has done great sticking to WR's in Man Coverage, and isn't afraid to play physical (Sometimes draws the occasional flag, but I'm alright with it). He consistently makes plays on the ball while it's in the air as well. Obviously he needs to improve his tackling as there have been some instances this season he's whiffed badly, but overall his coverage skills have been great for a number 2 CB. 

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No thanks. I don't want a headcase anymore after Galette. Not that Apple is on that level or anything, just my personal policy now. It's one thing to have some slight issues but to be a "cancer" as his teammate called it, that's something else entirely. 

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I am a firm believer that a change of scenery can make a world of difference in a persons behavior. If he is willing to take a cheap contract to play with some former Buckeyes that he has a rapport with and has had success around, that could be what he needs to get his act together. On top of that, this is assuming he is cut. I am not interested in trading for him. If he is cut and made a FA, yes I would take a shot. Then there is lest invested in the event we need to cut ties if he gets his head crossed up again. @Raves I'm with you on giving him a shot. IF he can come cheap enough, he can provide a big boost to the CB depth which is something we need. Youth and talent for our secondary would be huge.

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I'd rather not take a chance on him.  We're not that desperate at the position.

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Having guys played with him in Ohio, if they feel he has a good character then I wouldn't be worried about it. It's a great reference check for sure. If there aren't any rumors to New Orleans, I would assume his character would be rated as poor by the guys on the team.

We are talking about the Giants where they can't seem to get out of the media for their poor culture. 

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22 hours ago, Raves said:

A leader doesn't throw things out in the public liek that either.  Part of why the "leader" of our WRs got traded this past offseason.  Like I said if we were to go for him it would require that his former teammates to vouch that he wasn't always like that and that they can get him back on track.  If they don't vouch for him we don't do it.  If he won't take a prove it contract with specific language regarding his attitude, then we don't do it.  Plus we would know very early in training camp if he would work out or not and could just cut him if he does take a prove it contract, which if he wouldn't do, we don't do it.

Raves... No offense but if Apple had not played at Ohio State would you have even made this post?

 

There are reports out now with other teammates calling Apple the WORST teammate they have ever had.

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10 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Raves... No offense but if Apple had not played at Ohio State would you have even made this post?

Probably not because we wouldn't have 2 secondary players and another offensive player that he would've played with and had rapport with.  He's an extremely talented player and was drafted as such, he has some issues as seen by this situation but if these players vouch that he's not normally like this and think he could turn it around then we take a low risk/high reward chance on him, if they don't think it you don't do it.  I mean really is there another school we have more recent players from to even use as a comparison?

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