2018 draft talk

[DontTazeMeBro]

8 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Is this assuming that Minkah Fitzpatrick and Derwin James will both be off the board, which is a smart assumption but just wondering?

All I know is that Derwin James is going to be special at the next level. Easily the most excited I’ve been about a safety since Eric Berry.

edit: It’s like college football is COD Black Ops and he’s playing on 15th prestige as a dominating 8 year old and everyone else just started playing the game.

James Im not even thinking about. I’m just assuming he’s not getting to us. I would take Elliott over Fitzpatrick though in a heartbeat 

[RavensfanRD]

9 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Is this assuming that Minkah Fitzpatrick and Derwin James will both be off the board, which is a smart assumption but just wondering?

All I know is that Derwin James is going to be special at the next level. Easily the most excited I’ve been about a safety since Eric Berry.

edit: It’s like college football is COD Black Ops and he’s playing on 15th prestige as a dominating 8 year old and everyone else just started playing the game.

Damn, we gotta trade up for son son A.S.A.P Rocky! 

 

[DreamKid]

@diamondbull424 I don't think Derwin will be gone, we could have a shot at him. IMO he's a rich man's Tony Jefferson, and I don't think that skill set is as sought after as a Malik Hooker last year or even Jamal Adams who was special due to his leadership. Some might view it as a redundancy to select him since we're already saddled with Jefferson but the FO could view him as that second ILB and able to solve our TE coverage issues.

I'm not as high on him as you guys but watching a safety that can actually tackle makes me feel things I haven't felt in a while.  

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, DreamKid said:

@diamondbull424 I don't think Derwin will be gone, we could have a shot at him. IMO he's a rich man's Tony Jefferson, and I don't think that skill set is as sought after as a Malik Hooker last year or even Jamal Adams who was special due to his leadership. Some might view it as a redundancy to select him since we're already saddled with Jefferson but the FO could view him as that second ILB and able to solve our TE coverage issues.

I'm not as high on him as you guys but watching a safety that can actually tackle makes me feel things I haven't felt in a while.  

Meh. I know you said Rich Man’s Jefferson, but Jefferson is a highly limited player. You want him in the box but he’s not an imposing threat there. Derwin James is a difference maker in the box. However, while Jefferson has limited athleticism and isn’t going to be able to recover from mistakes, James has elite athleticism to recover and close. James can man the nickel corner role, play deep safety well, does well against both TEs and RBs in coverage. And is probably the best safety blitzer in this draft class. He’s the complete package.

Jefferson can only play safety and linebacker at an average to above average level (maybe), James is an elite safety, an above average linebacker, and a good nickel corner. I’d say Derwin James compares more to a guy like Nate Clements when he converted to safety. Where he could be nickel corner, tackle physically. And also cover well.

Outside of his first two plays of the game which were horrible, he has great instincts and attacks the football.

[DreamKid]

@diamondbull424 Got an ideal pick board yet, top 5 maybe?

[DontTazeMeBro]

I probably wouldn’t pass on a player who was far better than the next best guy over it. But I also don’t like that James sat out the Bowl game 

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

@diamondbull424 Got an ideal pick board yet, top 5 maybe?

Nope. Today I’m working on putting together my top 10 IOL and top 10 OTs respectively. Then I’ll probably do receiver again. And then as opposed to doing every defensive position I’ll probably do top 10 secondary and top 10 front 7 respectively (since defense should be a lesser need and that’ll save some time.)

And then once all that is done, I was going to do top 10 picks in the first 4 rounds.

If we’re assuming Derwin James could be available then I’d say something quick would be just listing the three 5 Star prospects I’ve seen in the draft. Guys with All Pro potential.

1. Derwin James = 5 Star 

2. Saquon Barkley = 5 Star

3. Trade down

4. Frank Ragnow = 5 Star

I haven’t extensively watched the OTs outside of Chukwuman Okorafor, once I do I suspect one of those players might fit the bill if they’re as talented as some have mentioned.

[diamondbull424]

 4 1/2 Stars: ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ? 

Connor Williams, Texas- Just quick enough. Understands leverage. Gets into set quickly. Plays under control. When he gets his hands on you, you lose. Mean, he’ll bury a player onto the ground and sit on them. I’ve seen him do it multiple times. The only thing keeping him from 5 stars is an elite trait. Like elite athleticism or elite size. But he plays like he belongs to the Iowa or Wisconsin programs.

Tyrell Crosby, Oregon- Boy! Crosby has easily been the most dominating run blocker I’ve seen on tape. With this guy they might need to bring back the pancake stat. He’s also good with his hand usage to keep dlineman from getting into his frame. He has the requisite athleticism. He can pull. He’s great with combo blocks. Quick to notice stunts (though his guards aren’t). The reason he isn’t as high as Williams even with being the better run blocker is that he’s not always as stout against a bull rush in pass protection. I’m nitpicking, but the NFL is more a league about not getting your QB kill than it is a league of getting your RB to over 1500 yards rushing. So being the better pass blocker elevates Williams and lowers Crosby.

4 Stars: ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ 

Orlando Brown Jr, Oklahoma- Has big lumbering steps. Not exceptionally fast or quick. Has only above average arm strength. He’s not Jonathan Ogden or Jared Gaither athletic. But he’ll still dominate. He’s going to continue to add strength when he gets into the NFL. And he dominates now purely off of his elite size metrics. He’s 6’8” 340 lbs, but he carries it well. He doesn’t play off balance and can actually get low and utilize leverage for his size (unlike Gaither), and you simply can’t teach his arm length. His arms look long in proportion to his 6’8” body. He might have 38” long arms. His arm length and his ability to cover ground with just one or two steps into his set will allow him to be a very good pass protector. He’ll struggle with someone that has an elite burst that can beat him before he gets set, but but beyond that he should be able to handle anything put in front of him. I don’t have him as a 5 Star because he simply doesn’t possess enough requisite athleticism to do everything with him. He could not be asked to pull. When he’s been made to pull at Oklahoma, it was a disaster every time. He could not get to his block fast enough.

Martinas Rankin, Mississippi St- Best at right tackle but could play LT and do well. Rankin reminds me of watching Michael Oher. He has the requisite amount of athleticism and length. He does a good job moving his man. Where he struggles will be great to elite burst off the edge. He’ll also struggle with inside moves and recovery. He does well with noticing stunts however. He’d be an elite guard if converted there and has the potential to be a pro bowl caliber RT.

3 Stars: ⭐️⭐️⭐️ 

Brian Oniel, Pitt- Nice athleticism. Quick feet. Reliable pass protector. Does a good job using his hands and extending his arms. Is very good when asked to pull. Is a “get in the way” type of run blocker, nothing special. He does a nice job with recognition of the defense and doesn’t play out of control. I like him a decent bit more than the rest of the 3 Star tackles. But I didn't put him in the four star category because of his weak run blocking and because his arms are probably not the longest. Lengthy pass rushers will probably give him enough problems that he will never be viewed as a top option at the position. But any team selecting him outside of the 1st round won’t be likely be disappointed.

Brandon Parker, North Carolina A&T- It was hard for me to place where to place Parker because of the lower level of competition. But he is definitely a sleeper level talent. He has eye opening athleticism on tape. He could convert to offensive guard and probably pull with the best of them. He gets a pop when run blocking. His hands aren’t noticeably slow when dealing with pass rushers and he typically keeps his hands locked and loaded. He’s not a pancake machine or anything, however he just looks like higher competition won’t really disrupt his game. He’s listed at 6’6” but I could see him measuring a little taller. It was hard for me to put him over Okorafor because of the competition factor, but he seemed to be a smarter player, which should eventually allow him to separate from Okorafor as a starting LT option. And with Parker also being the better athlete, that was the difference.

Chukwuma Okorafor, Western Michigan-Athletic. Perhaps one of the better athletes at tackle in this class. He should test well in the 3 cone drill at the combine. He doesn’t take long getting into his sets. The problem with Okorafor is his recognition of plays. Just like Rankin compared to Michael Oher from a physical standpoint, Okorafor compares to Oher but from a recognition standpoint. Struggles on occasion to recognize stunts and inside moves. He’ll struggle against pass rushers that know how to use their hands. He can dominate plays with his size and athleticism. In college this makes him the cream of the crop. But in the NFL that will lead to problems. The only reason I have him ahead of McClinchey is because I think he could develop into a great run blocker or convert to guard and really succeed when he can essentially slow things down some.

Mike McGlinchey, Notre Dame- Overextends way too much. Lacks foot quickness. Doesn’t play under control often. Whiffs too much on blocks. Watching him pass block reminds me of Jake Long from Michigan. Only McClinchey doesn’t have elite strength to make up for playing so off balance. He also isn’t an elite run blocker. He has size and when he does get connected to his man he can really be effective. But a lot of his mistakes are covered up by a great OL unit. If he didn’t play for Notre Dame he wouldn’t receive nearly as much hype.

2 Stars: ⭐️⭐️ 

Timon Parris, Stony Brook- Excellent size for a LT. Great length. Looks like 35 1/2 arm length. He has quick feet. Developmental option. Doesn’t have a great base to sustain a solid bull rush. Slow hands, will allow a defender to get into his chest once against better competition. Late round option only.

1 Star: ⭐️ 

Jamarco Jones, Ohio State- I don’t really see anything about Jones that would make me want to spend a pick on him. I simply have him on my list because I need to get to 10 and he was on Mel Kipers too 10. Beyond that he whiffs on blocks. Gets confused by stunts. Isn’t an elite athlete. Nor does he have elite size. He might be someone to throw on the practice squad and see if a different blocking scheme and more experience might elevate his play though.

[Danand]

I think you are a little hard on MgClinchey but I can also understand some of the concerns. He has those really bad snaps, where he completely whiffs. I don't know what it is, because in general he seems to have proper technique. He is a bit finesse though like Stanley was coming out.

I really like O'neill in the 2-3 round. If we get him there, I believe we get at at least solid tackle/guard option for years.

[diamondbull424]

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

@diamondbull424 Got an ideal pick board yet, top 5 maybe?

So my updated offensive board without including defensive talent would be:

1. Connor Williams

2. Tyrell Crosby

3. Saqoun Barkley

4. Orlando Brown Jr

5. Frank Ragnow

6a. James Washington

6b. Calvin Ridley

6c. Dallas Goedert

9. Martinas Rankin

10. Rashaad Penny

11. Bryce Love

12. Derrius Guice

13. Sony Michael

14. Nick Chubb

15. Anthony Miller

16. Courtland Sutton

17. Marcel Ateman

18. Hayden Hurst

19. Brian Oniel

20. Mark Andrews

[diamondbull424]

39 minutes ago, Danand said:

I think you are a little hard on MgClinchey but I can also understand some of the concerns. He has those really bad snaps, where he completely whiffs. I don't know what it is, because in general he seems to have proper technique. He is a bit finesse though like Stanley was coming out.

I really like O'neill in the 2-3 round. If we get him there, I believe we get at at least solid tackle/guard option for years.

I have him as a starting quality offensive tackle. I wouldn’t say that’s being hard. I just would not risk my quarterback on his weakness to leverage and slow feet. 

He does nothing in an elite fashion. He doesn’t dominate run blocks. He plays off balance in pass pro, which is why he’s inconsistent from snap to snap. That’s a leverage trait. Great leverage specialists, usually lineman that also wrestled, are consistent from snap to snap.

Brian Oniel is a similar player to McGlinchey, but looks better with leverage from what I’ve seen. I’d put both of them in that 2nd/3rd round area. But based off of my analysis, where do you find me to be too harsh on him and other than Brandon Parker and possibly Okorafor, which lineman would you have me lower for McGlinchey and why?

[Danand]

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I have him as a starting quality offensive tackle. I wouldn’t say that’s being hard. I just would not risk my quarterback on his weakness to leverage and slow feet. 

He does nothing in an elite fashion. He doesn’t dominate run blocks. He plays off balance in pass pro, which is why he’s inconsistent from snap to snap. That’s a leverage trait. Great leverage specialists, usually lineman that also wrestled, are consistent from snap to snap.

Brian Oniel is a similar player to McGlinchey, but looks better with leverage from what I’ve seen. I’d put both of them in that 2nd/3rd round area. But based off of my analysis, where do you find me to be too harsh on him and other than Brandon Parker and possibly Okorafor, which lineman would you have me lower for McGlinchey and why?

Quality left tackle I can go with, but I just thought your assessment of his ability was pretty harsh. I put on the Temple video, and from that, he had one bad play where he led the end get inside for a tackle for loss and his cut blocks isn't pretty. But besides that, he get out of his stance and hold his ground and guides the end around the pocket so the QB can climb, he gets decent push in the run game and he does a pretty good job at getting to the second level.

He clearly benefits from having a great guy next to him as he in the Temple game never has to worry about anything going inside. He isn't the most nimble, and he kind of wall of in the blocking game rather than latching on and driving his guy away - thats what I referred to when calling him a finesse blocker and that way he reminds me of Stanley in college.

Maybe you can point me in a direction, where he plays off balance in pass pro as you mentioned.

Another point, he doesn't play very explosive but he is not slow either, so he might be a certain scheme fit rather than other OT's.

[Danand]

DB424, where do you have Kolton Miller from UCLA? He looks the part and while he isn't the most athletic or powerfull, he has very active hands and uses them to keep pass rushers off him so he can use his length.

[diamondbull424]

6 hours ago, Danand said:

DB424, where do you have Kolton Miller from UCLA? He looks the part and while he isn't the most athletic or powerfull, he has very active hands and uses them to keep pass rushers off him so he can use his length.

Never watched his tape tbqh. I watched players from mainly Mel Kipers top 10 OTs and then watched the players from the cbssports top OTs that I could remember. It’s why I’ve done this Star scale, so it’ll allow me to simply add a player to the list based off of where I believe he’ll fit.

5 Star = All Pro talent

4 star = Probowl talent

3 Star = Starter talent

2 star = Backup/Useable skillset

1 Star = Special teams/practice squad level.

So any player that I scout should fall into this metric thus I can just add them to my current list of players without having to rewatch EVERYONE to feel comfortable with where I want to place them on a big board. I hate big boards. Even my top 20 offensive big board, I hate, because my opinions about prospects in the same category changes from moment to moment, for instance, the 4 Star running backs. I can’t determine which of those guys I like more or less. But I very much like them all and think all of them would truly thrive in Baltimore, all for different reasons.

[Danand]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Never watched his tape tbqh. I watched players from mainly Mel Kipers top 10 OTs and then watched the players from the cbssports top OTs that I could remember. It’s why I’ve done this Star scale, so it’ll allow me to simply add a player to the list based off of where I believe he’ll fit.

5 Star = All Pro talent

4 star = Probowl talent

3 Star = Starter talent

2 star = Backup/Useable skillset

1 Star = Special teams/practice squad level.

So any player that I scout should fall into this metric thus I can just add them to my current list of players without having to rewatch EVERYONE to feel comfortable with where I want to place them on a big board. I hate big boards. Even my top 20 offensive big board, I hate, because my opinions about prospects in the same category changes from moment to moment, for instance, the 4 Star running backs. I can’t determine which of those guys I like more or less. But I very much like them all and think all of them would truly thrive in Baltimore, all for different reasons.

I never really have a big board, I have a Ravens board with players I like for us, which I then somehow rate. Most are aligned with the common perception on where to get these players with small differences, but it varies..