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Bombastic ESPN article on relationships of Brady, Kraft, Belichick, Guerrero

tonyto36

By tonyto36
in New England Patriots

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ChazStandard

ChazStandard

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2 minutes ago, Starless said:

Because the stuff Guerrero and by extension Brady are peddling is total quackery. At best it's a mix of standard stretching/massage regimens and snake oil, at worst it's pure snake oil. And you know what happens to people who peddle snake oil in a litigious society, right? LAWSUITS. I guarantee you that within the next 5 years someone or several someones will attempt to live by the TB12 method and either receive no tangible benefit from it or, worse still, suffer illness or injury as a result (worst case scenario: people buy into the "hydration protects you from sun exposure" BS and end up with melanoma) and once that happens there will be a class-action lawsuit. In such a lawsuit there will be depositions by Brady and Guerrero required as part of their defense (unless they decide to settle, which would mean the end of their business anyway) and once that happens, what do you expect to come out? Even if Brady is found to have been acting in good faith, do you really think that Guerrero won't cop to his methods being total crap if he goes under oath? And then Brady will forever have to live with the reputation of being the guy who, at best, got roped into working with a snake oil guy whose methods harmed a lot of people. It won't affect how people view him as a football player, but as a person?

I think this attitude says a lot more about social norms than it does anything else. People are just reacting because it's a slightly flaky, new-age approach. It isn't inherently worse than anything else that athletes back every day. In some ways it's better, because at least it's coming from a place of genuine desire to better the world.

I'll say again - the possible ill-effects (both individual and societal) of TB12 are nothing compared to other athlete endorsments. Athletes endorse Nike and Adidas, who run sweat shops in the third world. They endorse alcoholic drinks that cause liver and heart problems, not to mention road traffic accidents. They endorse medications and insurance plans for one of the most corrupt and dangerous health-care systems on the planet. They endorse candy and fast food when diabetes is national epidemic. And they endorse Ford, Jaguar and Toyota when our air is being turned to poison.

If avocado ice-cream and brain-training apps can taint a players legacy, but papa johns, dunkin donuts and budweiser can't, then the world has gone insane.

 

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Apparition

Apparition

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Just now, ChazStandard said:

I think this attitude says a lot more about social norms than it does anything else. People are just reacting because it's a slightly flaky, new-age approach. It isn't inherently worse than anything else that athletes back every day. In some ways it's better, because at least it's coming from a place of genuine desire to better the world.

I'll say again - the possible ill-effects (both individual and societal) of TB12 are nothing compared to other athlete endorsments. Athletes endorse Nike and Adidas, who run sweat shops in the third world. They endorse alcoholic drinks that cause liver and heart problems, not to mention road traffic accidents. They endorse medications and insurance plans for one of the most corrupt and dangerous health-care systems on the planet. They endorse candy and fast food when diabetes is national epidemic. And they endorse Ford, Jaguar and Toyota when our air is being turned to poison.

If avocado ice-cream and brain-training apps can taint a players legacy, but papa johns, dunkin donuts and budweiser can't, then the world has gone insane.

 

You're ignoring the fact that Guerrero has already been fined by the FTC and barred from making any claims as to the function or effectiveness of products he's peddled in the past. And anyone reputable with a background of science or medicine who's examined the TB12 method has proclaimed it to be bunk. Brady is a fool for hitching himself to this guy and I guarantee that if and when the reckoning comes for Guerrero, Brady will suffer a big hit to his reputation as well. 

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ChazStandard

ChazStandard

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1 minute ago, Starless said:

You're ignoring the fact that Guerrero has already been fined by the FTC and barred from making any claims as to the function or effectiveness of products he's peddled in the past. And anyone reputable with a background of science or medicine who's examined the TB12 method has proclaimed it to be bunk. Brady is a fool for hitching himself to this guy and I guarantee that if and when the reckoning comes for Guerrero, Brady will suffer a big hit to his reputation as well. 

I feel like you're missing my point entirely.

What harm has Brady done that should harm his reputation? How is it worse than other athletes' endorsing far more dangerous products?

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1 minute ago, ChazStandard said:

I feel like you're missing my point entirely.

What harm has Brady done that should harm his reputation? How is it worse than other athletes' endorsing far more dangerous products?

The problem with what Brady is doing as opposed to other celebrities endorsing dangerous products is that everyone knows too much alcohol/drunk driving can kill you and that too much fast food can give you obesity and type-2 diabetes. Brady is selling a lifestyle that he expects people to believe will substantially improve their lives, when in fact there's absolutely no evidence that it will. 

What harm has he done? I don't know, that depends on how many people buy his stupid book and treat it as gospel, expecting to become the physical specimen that Brady is at age 40.

False hope is a terrible thing to peddle.

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tonyto36

tonyto36

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6 minutes ago, ChazStandard said:

I feel like you're missing my point entirely.

What harm has Brady done that should harm his reputation? How is it worse than other athletes' endorsing far more dangerous products?

When you support a guy who told dying cancer patients to give him money because he's cured cancer, I think it's justified being dubious of someone endorsing him.  

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ChazStandard

ChazStandard

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9 hours ago, Starless said:

The problem with what Brady is doing as opposed to other celebrities endorsing dangerous products is that everyone knows too much alcohol/drunk driving can kill you and that too much fast food can give you obesity and type-2 diabetes. Brady is selling a lifestyle that he expects people to believe will substantially improve their lives, when in fact there's absolutely no evidence that it will. 

What harm has he done? I don't know, that depends on how many people buy his stupid book and treat it as gospel, expecting to become the physical specimen that Brady is at age 40.

False hope is a terrible thing to peddle.

You mean like insurance? Or a new credit card? Or anti-depressants? Or those ridiculous fake maps with "better cell phone coverage" written on them?

Because they all get advertised on American television all the time. And they all have celebrity endorsements. Do you know how many people get screwed over by  All State and Nationwide every year? Do you think celebrities who endorse Bank of America taint their brand everytime they foreclose one someone's house?

You don't know his book is stupid, you haven't read it. You don't know his approach doesn't work, for a sample size of 1 so far it does. And let's not buy into the straw-man that reporters are trying to make of this. I've read his website, all it does is say "drink more water, don't smoke  or drink, don't eat processed sugar or caffiene, work on flexibility not bulk and eat lots of vege3tables and you'll be healthier". That's been common knowledge for literally decades. He doesn't claim to be immortal or to cure cancer.

Whether or not it works, he's genuinely trying to do something good, instead of just hawking crap for the highest bidder, I think that is admirable. I mean, it takes real balls to go on TV and tell people not to drink Coca Cola, when Coke is one of the biggest endorsements an athlete can have. That shows some principle, and it bothers me that some people would rather have him advertising for Burger King instead of telling people to eat organic vegetables.

It seems to me you're falling for the hysteria

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1ForTheThumb

1ForTheThumb

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9 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

If Jimmy wasn't doing so well in SF, this wouldn't be a thing

If Jimmy falls off a cliff and turns poo, this isn't a thing

If we draft a QB who shows the same promise that Jimmy did, this stops being a thing.

 

It's so precarious  

Yup. This story is forced because everyone's looking for reason why Belichick traded him with him looking like a franchise QB.

Here's the thing, he didn't.

When he was drafted no one expected Brady to be playing at an MVP level like he currently is.

Around this years draft, he didn't want to trade him. There's a reason why credible reporters like Schefter and Rappoport were saying that he will not be traded. He wanted to continue to ride out this season and if Brady dropped off or showed signed of declining, he keep him until next year.

Problem is, Brady didn't. So Belichick was forced to get at least something for him at the deadline. Not forced by Kraft, not forced by Brady. He simply rid out the situation for as long as he could and it was overall just bad timing. He wasn't going to trade an HOF, proven commodity and hang onto the younger, unproven commodity. And Jimmy was NEVER going to except a contract extension to be a back up and continue to wait. Through another wrinkle into this, that often gets overlooked? They share the same agent.

Belichick did what he's always done, and what Kraft has always given him the chance to do...to do what's best for the football team. Should he have gotten more? Yes. But at that point, his hand was forced.

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Hunter2_1

Hunter2_1

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2 minutes ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

Yup. This story is forced because everyone's looking for reason why Belichick traded him with him looking like a franchise QB.

Here's the thing, he didn't.

When he was drafted no one expected Brady to be playing at an MVP level like he currently is.

Around this years draft, he didn't want to trade him. There's a reason why credible reporters like Schefter and Rappoport were saying that he will not be traded. He wanted to continue to ride out this season and if Brady dropped off or showed signed of declining, he keep him until next year.

Problem is, Brady didn't. So Belichick was forced to get at least something for him at the deadline. Not forced by Kraft, not forced by Brady. He simply rid out the situation for as long as he could and it was overall just bad timing. He wasn't going to trade an HOF, proven commodity and hang onto the younger, unproven commodity. And Jimmy was NEVER going to except a contract extension to be a back up and continue to wait. Through another wrinkle into this, that often gets overlooked? They share the same agent.

Belichick did what he's always done, and what Kraft has always given him the chance to do...to do what's best for the football team. Should he have gotten more? Yes. But at that point, his hand was forced.

Exactly. He absolutely made the right call. Revisionist history; imagine if he actually traded Brady away in October. Just f imagine that for a second.

 

Grim, isn't it.

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mission27

mission27

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So I do believe there is tension because of the Guerrero thing tbh.  That feels real.  Obviously there is something going on.  Mission call this all the way back a few weeks ago.

The quotes about Kraft giving Belichick ultimatums or Brady feeling threatened by Jimmy G are horse****. 

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