Bombastic ESPN article on relationships of Brady, Kraft, Belichick, Guerrero

[tonyto36]

29 minutes ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

I've ignored like his last 5 posts and he continues to get worked up about it. Not sure what makes him more riled up- IT4, David Price or this story.

Multiple reporters close to the team, Belichick, Brady and Kraft have all shot down this non-sense but I'm the one who has no clue because I don't believe professional trolls like Felger, Mazz, Greg Bedard and Seth Wickersham.

Is tonyto "The Big" Jim Murray!? Hey man, continue to get worked up over this story. Believe what  you want to believe, doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'll continue to watch Belichick, Brady, Kraft and the Patriots continue their dominance as the greatest sports franchise of all time.

You haven't ignored the posts.   You've just been unable to respond to my questions or logic.  Because it immediately ruins any logic in dumping JG for what they did, how they did it, and when they did it.  All of which make zero sense unless Kraft pushed Belichick to trade him.   Any other explanation is based on the final premise that Belichick is incompetent at his job.  

[tonyto36]

18 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Yes. Obvious.

I think he already knew JG could play, it was just needing games to see what TB12 tm could do.

Not a niners fan, but certainly a Shanahan fam. I do genuinely believe he constructed the destination.

 

Not for me. To say he wasn't trading JG at the time (off-season) was accurate. If he said he had no intentions of trading him, that would be a ropey claim. He didn't KNOW if he was trading him until Tom showed us that he's still miles better than JG. He was probably giving other GMs the cold shoulder, knowing SF was the place.

1.  Ridiculous.  You don't go from MVP form to scrub overnight.  Regardless of what ESPN wants to tell you, Peyton wasn't in 2004 form one season and then 2016 form the next.

2.  Again nonsense.  He's had 3 years to evaluate JG.  He makes personnel moves based on training camp.  Yet he needs another 3 months to evaluate and decide on JG?  After JG started multiple games for us?  Nonsense.

3.  I do believe he wanted JG to go to the Niners for any of a multitude of reasons.  Thomas posted on twitter (assumedly was told/explained by Browns front office) that Belichick didn't want to trade him to a place he hated so he'd end up on the Jets and kill them.  Which 1. makes sense, and 2. makes you realize how much  Belichick (reportedly) loves JG.  Which puts into context MORE reason why you'd have to believe Belichick was forced to trade him.   Belichick likes Shannahan I believe.  I also believe he likes Lynch - who was here as a Patriot for a little bit.  

4.  No he didn't say he wasn't trading him at the time.  He said JG was completely untouchable and to not bother ever asking.   If that is what he meant he would have said something along the lines of "at this time we're not" or "we're holding him on until the trade deadline to decide".  He said, per Schefter, "no matter what you offer us, we are not going to even consider your offer, buzz off".  That is NOT the line you give if you're planning  to even POSSIBLY trade him a couple months later.  

[tonyto36]

2 hours ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Hey guess what guys? Bill Belichick, Tom Brady and Robert Kraft will all be here next season. Unless you want to believe Michael Felger or Seth Wickersham.

#ESPNLies #OntoTennessee 

McDaniels and Patricia both rumored to be likely gone.

Texans trying to hire away Caserio.

Brady is turning 41.

Belichick's coaching career forever has been rumored to be elongated if he thinks he can win post-Brady (ie. JG)

#NOTHINGISGOINGTOCHANGE  #HOMER4LYFE  #EVERYTHINGISPERFECT  #HEADINTHESAND  #PATRIOTSWILLNEVERGETWORSEIMPOSSIBLE

[Hunter2_1]

17 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

1.  Ridiculous.  You don't go from MVP form to scrub overnight.  Regardless of what ESPN wants to tell you, Peyton wasn't in 2004 form one season and then 2016 form the next.

Well, there's the "cliff". He didn't actually know if TB could be TB until he started playing. Look at how quick Tom's form fell this season.

17 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

2.  Again nonsense.  He's had 3 years to evaluate JG.  He makes personnel moves based on training camp.  Yet he needs another 3 months to evaluate and decide on JG?  After JG started multiple games for us?  Nonsense.

No, you've missread me here. I'm agreeing with you here. I'm saying he knew what JG was through training camps 

 

[Pats#1]

44 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

You haven't ignored the posts.   You've just been unable to respond to my questions or logic.  Because it immediately ruins any logic in dumping JG for what they did, how they did it, and when they did it.  All of which make zero sense unless Kraft pushed Belichick to trade him.   Any other explanation is based on the final premise that Belichick is incompetent at his job.  

So Belichick thinking he could make a long term deal with JG this season to keep him, and JG refusing the deal for obvious reasons, is somehow an impossibility?

 

Belichick not wanting to get rid of Brady because he's still much better than JG, but also realizing that long term JG could be the guy, is just completely put of the question?

 

What makes you so sure of yourself in all of this? I mean to be honest, you seem to come off pretty arrogant in most of your posts, but this go around you seem almost offended that people aren't completely agreeing with you, and the fact that they think your wrong upsets you to the point of resorting to hash tags trying to insult them. 

[1ForTheThumb]

36 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

McDaniels and Patricia both rumored to be likely gone.

Texans trying to hire away Caserio.

Brady is turning 41.

Belichick's coaching career forever has been rumored to be elongated if he thinks he can win post-Brady (ie. JG)

#NOTHINGISGOINGTOCHANGE  #HOMER4LYFE  #EVERYTHINGISPERFECT  #HEADINTHESAND  #PATRIOTSWILLNEVERGETWORSEIMPOSSIBLE

Now you're just being ridiculous and putting words in my mouth. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with you anymore.

1) Yeah, I'm aware McDaniels and Patricia are likely gone. I even said in the "2018 Coaching Staff Watch" thread that I'm expecting them both to walk this off-season. I'm not going to act like the Patriots won't be the top team in the AFC next year because they're losing McDaniels and Patricia, as long as Belichick is around. He is the best coach and GM in NFL History. This isn't the first time coaches have left. He's ALWAYS prepared.

2) Brady is turning 41? News to me! If you read my intial post, my biggest beef with the ESPN article was that they Patriots dynasty has an expiration date. Uhhhhh yah think? Brady is 41, Kraft is 76, and Belichick is 65 and has said he doesn't want to coach until hes 70. This isn't news. I'm not sure why people are acting like 3 old guys who's careers are coming to an end are acting like its a new story. Hot take.

Really getting worked up here Michael Felger Jr. In case you didn't know, the Patriots have a playoff game, at home, against the Titans, saturday night. I'm excited about that match up, this team getting healthy, and a potential deep playoff run. I'm not going to freak out because Seth Wickersham came out with a conveniently timed hit-piece.

Belichick, Brady and Kraft will all be here next year. Guess who are the 3 constants during this incredible, 18 year run?

[1ForTheThumb]

 

This article has literally been destroyed. 

[Apparition]

3 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

Can you explain why?  It appears to me that you just don't want it to, because it makes all the sense in the world to me, while "Belichick isn't capable of evaluating talent unless they play six games for him to decide if they will suck, and he will wait to the last possible moment to decide if Brady can play, yet not wait until the trade deadline to trade Jimmy, not look for the best offer, and will do this after telling all teams JG was completely untouchable for 3 months and they aren't even entertaining calls" - makes much less sense.  

Because it's a massive leap to go from "The Garoppolo trade doesn't make sense to me" to "Belichick was forced by some combination of Kraft and Brady to make the Garoppolo trade."

We know for a fact that the Belichick/Kraft relationship is very much predicated on the idea that Kraft doesn't repeat the same mistakes he made with Bill Parcells (i.e. "buying the groceries"). If Kraft were to intervene when it came to personnel decisions, short of extreme outlier situations like Aaron Hernandez being a murderer, the basis of that relationship would dissolve. We already know that Belichick has publicly committed himself to returning in 2018, so where's the logic in thinking that something happened in 2017 that would, based on everything we know to be true, caused the sort of damage to the owner-coach relationship that would probably cause a coach who was about to turn 66 to reconsider that relationship.

There are plenty of reasons why the Garoppolo trade had to happen when it did, which have been laid out by people both here and elsewhere. But if you want to keep clinging to this conspiracy theory, be my guest.

[LD696]

3 hours ago, ChazStandard said:

I wasn't talking about play, I said he hadn't aged as badly as them. Both Peyton and Favre looked nearly 50 at 38. Brady is 40 but looks 30. Athletes almost universally age terribly. Now, that's not conclusive proof. But it does mean something. As for there being "zero evidence" it works, well, what would be evidence? Obviously this isn't scientific...but Brady does it and he credits it for his success. It seems your assertion there's no evidence it works is predicated on the assumption that Brady is either stupid or dishonest.

There's no point in just deciding it doesn't work because you think it's "woo", and then ignoring every piece of evidence that says otherwise. What good did closedmindedness ever do anyone?

What do their looks have to do with... anything? Lemmy Kilmister looked about ~15 years younger than he actually was when he died and he subsisted on whisky and cigarettes. Looks and physical fitness hardly correlate. Brian Bosworth posed for magazines, but had the shoulder of an old man by he was 25. Tony Mandarich looked like a (juiced-up) greek god and retired injured.

(Some) evidence could be generated by running Guerrero's method against a conventional training program through a double blind test on a sufficiently large sample size. Nobody will do that though as it requires time and money and Guerrero's goal is to make profit, not to make people healthier (seriously, we are talking about a man who faked being a doctor, dammit; not exactly the sign of honesty). Brady is not stupid (can't tell about the dishonety part), but he's at least led by the nose by a snake oil salesman and has no qualifications or experience himself to tell fakery apart from actual medical advice.

I'm not closeminded and I'm not the only who thinks Guerrero's quackery is absolute ****e. He made up the catchphase of their method (pliability) and made it look like like it's a novel concept that's been missing from training, when in fact flexibility's and mobility's effects and limitations are known and constantly debated. From those videos it also becomes clear why I wrote earlier that he has no idea how the body works - he confuses muscle shortness and tightness for something completely different. Why? Because he's a dim-witted blowhard, like most new age charlatans are.

4 hours ago, ChazStandard said:

And being dehydrated can kill you. And lifting weights with insufficient stretching and cardio work is bad for you. Everything in life is about moderation. I think my point went over your head, I'll try again: There is nothing in that book that is, of itself, bad advice. 

"Drink more water" is not bad advice because "drinking too much water is bad". Just like "get more exercise" isn't bad advice because you can run until your heart stops. If a doctor tells me to "eat more vegetables", and I eat celery until my stomach ruptures, he didn't give me bad advice or act unethically...I'm just a moron. If you're only criticism of the approach is "taken to extremes, it can be dangerous" then you'll never be happy with anything, because that statement is true of literally everything.

They not just say "drink more water". They advise drinking excessive amounts of water based on bull/debunked reasoning (see the article I posted earlier); they advise a debunked diet (see article I posted earlier); their training regimen is unsuitable for athletes and overemphasizes stretching without presenting evidence for its efficacy. (see my post earlier). They encourage moronic behaviour.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh and too passionate about this, but this kind of unsubstantiated cattle excrement always infuriates me, because it takes away resources and credibility from people doing actual good on the field.

[tonyto36]

2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Well, there's the "cliff". He didn't actually know if TB could be TB until he started playing. Look at how quick Tom's form fell this season.

No, you've missread me here. I'm agreeing with you here. I'm saying he knew what JG was through training camps 

 

There is no cliff.  That's just a whole load of media concocted nonsense that stems from Max Kellerman's hot take that 40 is a magical number that QBs start being bad at.  

Quarterbacks don't become horrifically bad over night.  

1 hour ago, Pats#1 said:

So Belichick thinking he could make a long term deal with JG this season to keep him, and JG refusing the deal for obvious reasons, is somehow an impossibility?

 

Belichick not wanting to get rid of Brady because he's still much better than JG, but also realizing that long term JG could be the guy, is just completely put of the question?

 

What makes you so sure of yourself in all of this? I mean to be honest, you seem to come off pretty arrogant in most of your posts, but this go around you seem almost offended that people aren't completely agreeing with you, and the fact that they think your wrong upsets you to the point of resorting to hash tags trying to insult them. 

You can not have a good team with two quarterbacks making 20 million a year.  It's impossible.  If you plan on having both of them making that much money - and Brady even being okay with that (by everything we've heard, ever, he wouldn't be) - then you're planning on punting every season until Tom leaves.

Firstly, I'm not convinced Brady is that much better than Jimmy G is right now.  Secondly that is out of the question given EVERYTHING we've known and seen from Belichick EVER.  Did anyone think Deion was a better receiver than Moss?  Did anyone think Gerard Warren was better than Richard Seymour?   Did anyone think Dan Connolly was playing better than Mankins?  Belichick NEVER goes for the short term play in expense of the long term.  Never.  

I'm sure because if you think it through rationally it makes absolutely zero sense and is completely counter intuitive to everything we've seen as Patriots fans for EIGHTEEN YEARS.   And I also really believe the Patriots completely screwed this up and we're a few years away from being the Cleveland Browns again.   Going from #4 overall [plus more] to pick #41 is a franchise crippling loss - even if we're going off JG should be traded.  Losing a franchise QB when you have a 41 year old QB?  That could be the catalyst for Belichick retiring when Brady retires.  That could have cost us 10+ years of elite play from JG.  That's potentially a DECADE of being the Browns that we're heading towards because of this.  This could go down as this generations Hershel Walker trade.  Regardless if you're on the we should or should not side of trading JG, it was a disaster.  I don't think people realize how big a deal this is to botch this, this badly. 

44 minutes ago, Starless said:

Because it's a massive leap to go from "The Garoppolo trade doesn't make sense to me" to "Belichick was forced by some combination of Kraft and Brady to make the Garoppolo trade."

We know for a fact that the Belichick/Kraft relationship is very much predicated on the idea that Kraft doesn't repeat the same mistakes he made with Bill Parcells (i.e. "buying the groceries"). If Kraft were to intervene when it came to personnel decisions, short of extreme outlier situations like Aaron Hernandez being a murderer, the basis of that relationship would dissolve. We already know that Belichick has publicly committed himself to returning in 2018, so where's the logic in thinking that something happened in 2017 that would, based on everything we know to be true, caused the sort of damage to the owner-coach relationship that would probably cause a coach who was about to turn 66 to reconsider that relationship.

There are plenty of reasons why the Garoppolo trade had to happen when it did, which have been laid out by people both here and elsewhere. But if you want to keep clinging to this conspiracy theory, be my guest.

The Garoppolo trade makes no sense on any level.  The timing, the return, the lack of bidding war, nothing.  It was botched in every way and the only explanations are you think Belichick is completely incompetent or Belichick was pressured into this.  I don't think Belichick is completely incompetent.  

Kraft has stepped in before.  Didn't Mira mandate that she wanted certain character traits in players (or lack thereof more specifically?).  It's not like Belichick can go do anything he wants.  Belichick returning doesn't mean there wasn't damage done.  For all we know Belichick is guaranteed 50 million dollars if he coaches through 2020.  You don't think he would stick around for that?  Rumor is he makes 12.5 a year.  You don't think he wouldn't grit his teeth and bare it for that?

The only theories are again, based in Belichick completely incompetent and being gun shy.   Two things that we've seen Belichick is absolutely not.  I do not buy into the notion that all of a sudden  he was afraid to make a deal - and then when he finally did, he decided "you know what, I don't care about the best offer, I'm just a lazy person and will take the first offer I get".    That makes absolutely zero sense to me and is delusional to me.  

[tonyto36]

1 hour ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

 

This article has literally been destroyed. 

I'm sure you also thought Clinton and Nixon allegations were completely destroyed too when they publicly denied it right?

Because Belichick is going to come out and say "yep, the Patriots are rotting from the inside, I hate my job, Kraft sucks".  

It must be a really confusing world for you when you take everything at face value - except when it's convenient for you, of course.

[Pats#1]

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

You can not have a good team with two quarterbacks making 20 million a year.  It's impossible.  If you plan on having both of them making that much money - and Brady even being okay with that (by everything we've heard, ever, he wouldn't be) - then you're planning on punting every season until Tom leaves.

Firstly, I'm not convinced Brady is that much better than Jimmy G is right now.  Secondly that is out of the question given EVERYTHING we've known and seen from Belichick EVER.  Did anyone think Deion was a better receiver than Moss?  Did anyone think Gerard Warren was better than Richard Seymour?   Did anyone think Dan Connolly was playing better than Mankins?  Belichick NEVER goes for the short term play in expense of the long term.  Never.  

I'm sure because if you think it through rationally it makes absolutely zero sense and is completely counter intuitive to everything we've seen as Patriots fans for EIGHTEEN YEARS.   And I also really believe the Patriots completely screwed this up and we're a few years away from being the Cleveland Browns again.   Going from #4 overall [plus more] to pick #41 is a franchise crippling loss - even if we're going off JG should be traded.  Losing a franchise QB when you have a 41 year old QB?  That could be the catalyst for Belichick retiring when Brady retires.  That could have cost us 10+ years of elite play from JG.  That's potentially a DECADE of being the Browns that we're heading towards because of this.  This could go down as this generations Hershel Walker trade.  Regardless if you're on the we should or should not side of trading JG, it was a disaster.  I don't think people realize how big a deal this is to botch this, this badly. 

JG piles up a couple wins where's he's been good and you aren't sure if Brady is better?

 

Recency bias much? You're acting like JG is a sure fire hall of famer after 8 total games played.

 

As for thinking about this situation rationally and what goes against everything we've seen for the past EIGHTEEN YEARS. I would say Belichick allowing Kraft to veto him and potentially turn us into the "Cleveland Browns" for the next 10 years, is the absolute number 1 thing that goes against rationale thinking with how we have seen Belichick run his operations in New England. 

 

It's fine if you want to believe this sensationalized story...but stop acting like the people that don't have blinders on, because it isn't just Pats fans that are recognizing how much hyperbole is in this piece that is trying to be passed off as legitimate facts. 

[Deadpulse]

5 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

It must be a really confusing world for you when you take everything at face value - except when it's convenient for you, of course.

You are literally taking an unsubstantiated report at face value.. you can't use that argument lol

 

8 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

McDaniels and Patricia both rumored to be likely gone.

Texans trying to hire away Caserio.

Brady is turning 41.

Belichick's coaching career forever has been rumored to be elongated if he thinks he can win post-Brady (ie. JG)

#NOTHINGISGOINGTOCHANGE  #HOMER4LYFE  #EVERYTHINGISPERFECT  #HEADINTHESAND  #PATRIOTSWILLNEVERGETWORSEIMPOSSIBLE

Ive said this before already, but this article IS NOT NEWS when it comes to the inevitable end of the Brady/Belichick era in New England. If it is, you are in denial. It has a couple years left, if that, irregardless of the validity of this hit piece. 

[mission27]

11 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

McDaniels and Patricia both rumored to be likely gone.

Texans trying to hire away Caserio.

Brady is turning 41.

Belichick's coaching career forever has been rumored to be elongated if he thinks he can win post-Brady (ie. JG)

#NOTHINGISGOINGTOCHANGE  #HOMER4LYFE  #EVERYTHINGISPERFECT  #HEADINTHESAND  #PATRIOTSWILLNEVERGETWORSEIMPOSSIBLE

Who f;ing cares? 

We've won five Super Bowls.  Let's just be thankful this gravy train is still going and hope it keeps going for as long as it can, because when this is over, there's now way we're winning anything else ever again.  Lightening doesn't strike twice.  

[mission27]

Just now, mission27 said:

Who f;ing cares? 

We've won five Super Bowls.  Let's just be thankful this gravy train is still going and hope it keeps going for as long as it can, because when this is over, there's now way we're winning anything else ever again.  Lightening doesn't strike twice.  

And before people say Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers... those guys each won 1 Super Bowl... that's pocket change compared to what Brady and Belichick have done.  Hell, those guys could still win more than 1 Super Bowl more before they are done. 

Doesn't matter how good Jimmy G was.  There's no guarantee he would've won more Super Bowls in 10 or 15 years as the best QB in the league than Brady and Belichick have in the past 3 years or next 3 years. 

Just be thankful of what we have and accept that you don't deserve to have a good football team ever again once this is over.