Bombastic ESPN article on relationships of Brady, Kraft, Belichick, Guerrero

[lancerman]

8 hours ago, mission27 said:

And before people say Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers... those guys each won 1 Super Bowl... that's pocket change compared to what Brady and Belichick have done.  Hell, those guys could still win more than 1 Super Bowl more before they are done. 

Doesn't matter how good Jimmy G was.  There's no guarantee he would've won more Super Bowls in 10 or 15 years as the best QB in the league than Brady and Belichick have in the past 3 years or next 3 years. 

Just be thankful of what we have and accept that you don't deserve to have a good football team ever again once this is over. 

Here's a better one. 

Brady by himself went to more Super Bowls than Young and Montana combined and won as many as both of them. And that was over pretty much the same amount of time. Brady by himself won 3 more Super Bowls than Rodgers and Favre combined and went to 4 more. Favre started in 1991 and Rodgers is still playing so you are talking about a period that is a full decade longer than Brady's career. 

Jimmy could be a top 10 QB his whole career and never win a Super Bowl. 

 

[tonyto36]

20 hours ago, Pats#1 said:

JG piles up a couple wins where's he's been good and you aren't sure if Brady is better?

 

Recency bias much? You're acting like JG is a sure fire hall of famer after 8 total games played.

 

As for thinking about this situation rationally and what goes against everything we've seen for the past EIGHTEEN YEARS. I would say Belichick allowing Kraft to veto him and potentially turn us into the "Cleveland Browns" for the next 10 years, is the absolute number 1 thing that goes against rationale thinking with how we have seen Belichick run his operations in New England. 

 

It's fine if you want to believe this sensationalized story...but stop acting like the people that don't have blinders on, because it isn't just Pats fans that are recognizing how much hyperbole is in this piece that is trying to be passed off as legitimate facts. 

No, I'm not sure Brady is THAT much better.  Brady is better for sure, but it's not a unjustifiably big gap - especially considering JG is likely to improve and Brady to regress in the next several years.

I personally think JG will be considered a top 3-5 QB next season.  Behind Brady/Rodgers and leading the pack of the second tier. 

Yes, it is exactly the opposite of what we've seen for years in New England.  Which makes me believe it wasn't Belichicks call.  

It's blinders to think that all of a sudden, when it's well known and documented that Kraft loves Brady on a personal level, that Belichick suddenly decided to reverse course on his team building philosophy and Kraft had nothing to do with it.  I think it's crazy to think that Belichick grew sentimental for Brady, or he became incompetent with his evaluations and didn't want to pull the trigger on JG because he wasn't sure one way or the other after THREE YEARS.

[tonyto36]

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

Here's a better one. 

Brady by himself went to more Super Bowls than Young and Montana combined and won as many as both of them. And that was over pretty much the same amount of time. Brady by himself won 3 more Super Bowls than Rodgers and Favre combined and went to 4 more. Favre started in 1991 and Rodgers is still playing so you are talking about a period that is a full decade longer than Brady's career. 

Jimmy could be a top 10 QB his whole career and never win a Super Bowl. 

 

 

12 hours ago, mission27 said:

And before people say Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers... those guys each won 1 Super Bowl... that's pocket change compared to what Brady and Belichick have done.  Hell, those guys could still win more than 1 Super Bowl more before they are done. 

Doesn't matter how good Jimmy G was.  There's no guarantee he would've won more Super Bowls in 10 or 15 years as the best QB in the league than Brady and Belichick have in the past 3 years or next 3 years. 

Just be thankful of what we have and accept that you don't deserve to have a good football team ever again once this is over. 

Okay, by that logic, Brady has won more championships than anyone.  So therefore he is unlikely to win any more, so we should abandon ship!

 

That's just nonsense.  JJ Watt has never come close to a SB victory.  So that means the Texans shouldn't continue forward with him?  What about Brady when he was backing up Bledsoe?  Brady could be a top ten QB his entire career and not win a SB, so why make the switch?!?!?!

 

Come on, you both know how ridiculous that logic is.  Yes it's true JG could have been our QB for ten years, been Aaron Rodgers, and never won a championship.  You don't bail on him because he could "possibly not win a championship".  

[TomRalph]

2 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

No, I'm not sure Brady is THAT much better.  Brady is better for sure, but it's not a unjustifiably big gap - especially considering JG is likely to improve and Brady to regress in the next several years.

I personally think JG will be considered a top 3-5 QB next season.  Behind Brady/Rodgers and leading the pack of the second tier. 

Yes, it is exactly the opposite of what we've seen for years in New England.  Which makes me believe it wasn't Belichicks call.  

It's blinders to think that all of a sudden, when it's well known and documented that Kraft loves Brady on a personal level, that Belichick suddenly decided to reverse course on his team building philosophy and Kraft had nothing to do with it.  I think it's crazy to think that Belichick grew sentimental for Brady, or he became incompetent with his evaluations and didn't want to pull the trigger on JG because he wasn't sure one way or the other after THREE YEARS.

You think Jimmy G will be better than Brees, Luck, Ryan, Wentz, Roethlisberger by the end of next season? That's a big call I just don't think I can agree with. 

[Pats#1]

3 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

No, I'm not sure Brady is THAT much better.  Brady is better for sure, but it's not a unjustifiably big gap - especially considering JG is likely to improve and Brady to regress in the next several years.

I personally think JG will be considered a top 3-5 QB next season.  Behind Brady/Rodgers and leading the pack of the second tier. 

Yes, it is exactly the opposite of what we've seen for years in New England.  Which makes me believe it wasn't Belichicks call.  

It's blinders to think that all of a sudden, when it's well known and documented that Kraft loves Brady on a personal level, that Belichick suddenly decided to reverse course on his team building philosophy and Kraft had nothing to do with it.  I think it's crazy to think that Belichick grew sentimental for Brady, or he became incompetent with his evaluations and didn't want to pull the trigger on JG because he wasn't sure one way or the other after THREE YEARS.

The first bolded is 110% conjecture and nothing more.

 

The second is quite hypocritical to say those that are disagreeing with this story have blinders on when you refuse accept even the possibility that JG not accepting the deal the BB offered him is what forced BB to change course and trade him before he walked after the season.

You're acting like BB being ready to trade Brady is a known fact when it's nothing more than a rumor some hack on ESPN wrote in a sensationalized article.

 

Again...if you want to believe the story that's fine, but cut the arrogant "blinders", "homers", "#Butthurt" crap for those that don't believe an article that has already been corrected for misinformation (BB meeting Goodell last week) and denied by the three main parties the story surrounds. 

[lancerman]

3 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

 

Okay, by that logic, Brady has won more championships than anyone.  So therefore he is unlikely to win any more, so we should abandon ship!

 

That's just nonsense.  JJ Watt has never come close to a SB victory.  So that means the Texans shouldn't continue forward with him?  What about Brady when he was backing up Bledsoe?  Brady could be a top ten QB his entire career and not win a SB, so why make the switch?!?!?!

 

Come on, you both know how ridiculous that logic is.  Yes it's true JG could have been our QB for ten years, been Aaron Rodgers, and never won a championship.  You don't bail on him because he could "possibly not win a championship".  

Omg..... Belichick thought Brady was better than Bledsoe. Nobody thinks Garopollo is better than Brady. It's more of a short term GOAT vs long term guy who is pretty good. 

Comparing those situations is faulty because Belichick inherited Bledsoe and didn't really want him. 

[1ForTheThumb]

 

[1ForTheThumb]

Why would Bedard just report BS though? He's an ESTABLISHED journalist!!

[mission27]

5 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

 

Okay, by that logic, Brady has won more championships than anyone.  So therefore he is unlikely to win any more, so we should abandon ship!

 

That's just nonsense.  JJ Watt has never come close to a SB victory.  So that means the Texans shouldn't continue forward with him?  What about Brady when he was backing up Bledsoe?  Brady could be a top ten QB his entire career and not win a SB, so why make the switch?!?!?!

 

Come on, you both know how ridiculous that logic is.  Yes it's true JG could have been our QB for ten years, been Aaron Rodgers, and never won a championship.  You don't bail on him because he could "possibly not win a championship".  

All I'm saying is don't underestimate how much better the Brady / Belichick pairing is than your average team with a good quarterback.  I'd argue one year of Brady is worth 10 years of a good quarter and at least a few years of most Hall of Fame quarterbacks.

With Brady, we've made the AFCCG three quarters of the time, made the Super Bowl half of the time, and won it a third of the time.  If he can continue to play at a high level for 3-4 more years (including this season), and we can keep this dynasty going for 3-4 years, there's a good chance we'd make a few AFCCG and win a Super Bowl if not multiple.  

That's what your average Hall of Fame quarterback does in their entire career.  Even if Jimmy G completely pans out and becomes a rockstar, there's really no guarantee he'd accomplish more in 10-12 years than Brady could in the next 3-4.  We have been treated to the greatest dynasty in NFL history and it seems crazy to want it to end just so we can move on to the potential for a longer, but more ordinary stretch of being pretty good... if we're lucky... and in the worst case, Jimmy G turning into what most young talented QBs do which is nothing.  

At the end of the day if you think Brady is going to be done in the very near future (like after this year) and that Jimmy G is a sure fire Hall of Famer, then yeah, you've got a good argument.  But that seems extremely far fetched to me.  I expect Brady to continue to play at a high level as he always has for at least a year or two more and Jimmy G is a wild card, albeit a talented one. 

[Pats#1]

44 minutes ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

 

Color me shocked

[Hunter2_1]

I wish they'd get a proper job 

[1ForTheThumb]

Wow why aren't any former Patriots or current employees giving any denials?!? They need to act more like they did in Deflategate!!

[tonyto36]

3 hours ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

Wow why aren't any former Patriots or current employees giving any denials?!? They need to act more like they did in Deflategate!!

Again, you realize how nonsense this is right?  It's a denial coming FROM THE KRAFTS.   The same Krafts who lambasted Goodell as the devil to Patriots fans, while secretly meeting with him and partying with him behind the scenes.  Why everything has to be super pro-Patriots or it's false in your mind is beyond me.  It's like 3rd grade fan girl level stuff.

And again, I have no doubts that there wasn't a direct order "trade Jimmy", but that doesn't mean Belichick didn't see the writing on the wall and see "it's impossible to have a successful team with two quarter backs making 20 million a year next season".   This is exactly why all of the Krafts/Brady are using third parties to voice their denials and not giving any hard denials and just generalities and hiding behind semantics.  No, maybe there wasn't a "code red" ala Jack Nicholson, but that doesn't mean there wasn't pressure to make it happen.   Yes maybe Belichick "had the final say" in this even, but what final say is there really if Kraft backs Brady, and Jimmy G won't take a contract to stay as a backup?  THERE IS NO CHOICE.   The only choice is where and how to trade Garoppolo and so far it looks like one of the most lopsided and horrible trades in NFL history.  I don't think that's a coincidence.

They are hiding behind semantics.  It's clear as day if you're not actively looking for excuses for them. 

Again, there are MULTIPLE stories that just trash Brady in the story and examples of stories supporting the notion that Brady was partial in the pushing out of JG of New England.  NO ONE has denied ANY of these FACT BASED accounts.  The ONLY denials have come in the way of semantics and generalities that can't be proven either way.  

I mean honestly, did you hear Brady's account when interviewed?  He was straight up asked "is there any truth to these accounts or stories?"  His response?  It wasn't "no".  It wasn't "I'm just focused on the Titans".  It was "well everyone has their own version of the truth".   REALLY?   He is all but admitting it happened.  Whether they be shown in the proper context is possible, but he is all but admitting those stories and accounts are really true.  

[tonyto36]

22 hours ago, Pats#1 said:

The first bolded is 110% conjecture and nothing more.

 

The second is quite hypocritical to say those that are disagreeing with this story have blinders on when you refuse accept even the possibility that JG not accepting the deal the BB offered him is what forced BB to change course and trade him before he walked after the season.

You're acting like BB being ready to trade Brady is a known fact when it's nothing more than a rumor some hack on ESPN wrote in a sensationalized article.

 

Again...if you want to believe the story that's fine, but cut the arrogant "blinders", "homers", "#Butthurt" crap for those that don't believe an article that has already been corrected for misinformation (BB meeting Goodell last week) and denied by the three main parties the story surrounds. 

The first part is conjecture - and I stated it was a personal belief.  The second part is absolutely not conjecture.  It's been stated and repeated several times by both Brady and Kraft.  Unless you think they're lying or just hypothesizing themselves?  LMFAO.   The third and last part about Belichick is well documented.  He doesn't hesitate to pull the trigger on an aging vet.  He doesn't worry about PR.  He doesn't "need more sample size" after seeing two players for 18 and 3 years respectively.  It's fact.  If he thought Brady was the choice he would have dumped Garoppolo for a kings ransom before the draft.

Do you honestly think that Belichick offered JG a contract extension before the season, was rejected, and then expected JG to change his mind half way through the season and take it?  Really?  THAT is blinders.  

I don't know exactly how the transition would happen, but I know that Belichick doesn't make horrible trades.  I know he doesn't hesitate to make moves he thinks are best for the team.  I know Belichick never takes the aging expensive vet over the young, upcoming cheap talent.   I know that NO ONE can rationalize going to ONE team and making a trade without CONSULTING A SINGLE OTHER TEAM, when it is known that MULTIPLE TEAMS are interested and would bid on a player, as a good move.   Even if he had no intention of ever trading JG to the Browns or Jets or Bills or Jags or any number of teams, the mere threat of it would have elevated the Niners price.  Hell, he was practically bidding against himself with the Niners.  He didn't even negotiate with them.  He just gave them Jimmy for a price LESS than they were likely to offer.  He didn't even try to start high and negotiate.  HE GAVE HIM AWAY.    I know all of these things are completely un-Belichick and make no sense in any rational way EXCEPT that maybe, just freaking maybe the story is true and everything Patriots isn't perfectly amazing all the time.  

 

I mean I love the Patriots and most other fanbases call me a homer, but this ridiculous just blind loyalty and irrational refusal to believe the smallest negative things - like Brady is human and has a soul and an ego, could possibly be true.  Or that Kraft, after taking multiple paycuts from Brady and riding his coattails for two decades felt some loyalty to Brady.   Or maybe Belichick got pissed off and frustrated and felt cornered into a deal.  Like really?  Is all that really THAT hard to believe?

 

 

[1ForTheThumb]

Brian Gaine being hired as the Texans GM.

I was told the sky is falling and the Patriots were losing Caserio to the Texans??? Hmm.