Bombastic ESPN article on relationships of Brady, Kraft, Belichick, Guerrero

[Nex_Gen]

Journalism just a hit a new low point. As if it couldn't get any lower. Excellent puff piece ESPN. Try harder....

[ChazStandard]

Quote

Defending someone's unethical behaviour on the basis of 'well fook mate, XYZ did that too' is one of the worst banes of mankind. I'm naive enough, that I expect people in a position to be role models, to not engage in ventures that can cause harm to other people and society in general. And you can bet I'm damned pissed when they do, doubly so when someone I admire for his/her successes does. These people should be held to higher standards due to their influential power and the fact that they aren't is a tragedy itself. Pey-pey shilling bad insurance should not be a reason for me to not despise Brady for pairing up with a snake oil salesman to peddle woo.

I'm not defending unethical behaviour, read more carefully. Starless said this could taint Brady's legacy, and I asked how it is different from any oher endorsement. I asked why, if this ruins Brady's legacy, other players haven't already had their legacies ruined. It's a fair question, I think.

How, in your opinion does Brady's program cause harm to "society in general"? Water overdoses? Avocado allergies? Yoga poisoning?

Quote

Why would I spend money on a book scissored and pasted from common knowledge?

That was literally my exact point. Starless said Brady could get sued for his "stupid" book. I was asking why a book that contains only common knowledge on a healthy lifestyle could a) ever be a source of litigation and b) be considered stupid. I'm glad you agree with me.

Quote

The "pliability" part seems to be the biggest selling point, but this is 1) again, nothing novel 2) has been known that it can be overemphasized to the point of being harmful

That is true of literally everything.

Quote

Following an approach, which efficiency has been tested on a sample size of one, sounds about as good of a decision as buying your neighbour's home made wonder cancer medicine which once cured his great grand-nephew's closest friend's ill hamster. Not very.

Almost as good a decision as deciding something doesn't work because "there's only a small amount of evidence that it does". Bottom line, Brady follows his own advice and is about to win MVP at forty. Look at him, he's not agef as badly as athletes usually do either (compare him to Favre or Peyton at 40). For Brady, it works. Now, does that prove it works for everyone? No. People are different, body chemistry such vary from person to person. BUT if it works for Brady, that alone removes any tag of "unethical" behaviour.

My entire point is that I just don't see this ruining Brady's legacy, and I've yet to hear a realistic explanations as to how it could.

[scottishpatriot]

13 hours ago, Nex_Gen said:

Journalism just a hit a new low point. As if it couldn't get any lower. Excellent puff piece ESPN. Try harder....

Disappointiled that even MMQB is giving it some credence and praising Wickersham's credentials.

Well at least it's not the worst and least substantiated article on the topic:

giants/bill-belichick-sees-opening-coach-giants-source-article-1.3739643

[Hunter2_1]

1 hour ago, scottishpatriot said:

Disappointiled that even MMQB is giving it some credence and praising Wickersham's credentials.

Well at least it's not the worst and least substantiated article on the topic:

giants/bill-belichick-sees-opening-coach-giants-source-article-1.3739643

Unbelievable. Desperate, even.

 

[lancerman]

16 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

The last one is pretty hilarious.  What exactly do you think Kraft is going to say?  "Yes I told him to trade JG and I'm the villain, hate me"???

Even if Kraft didn't explicitely mandate, there are a thousand ways Belichick could have been or felt cornered into having to do it.

I am shocked there are people who actually believe Belichick wanted to hold JG around for a half a season - and lose likely a first round pick in the process - just to see if Brady sucked this year.  That makes absolutely zero rational sense and would be the stupidest move in NFL history.   You don't give up a  bidding war for 6 games to see if your MVP QB is going to suck that season.   And you don't give up a guy you think is "the next big thing" and a future top 10 player for a 41 year old QB unless your owner squeezes you and corners you into doing it.

This isn't even being homers, this is just being stupid if you believe that.   Belichick holding on to JG for half a season because he was worried Brady would suck this year has to be one of the worst takes I've ever heard. 

And this mentality shows a faulty mindset of valuing picks over on the field value.  

What's more useful. 

1. Trading Jimmy for a POSSIBLE 1st in the off season and going into the season blind not knowing how Brady would perform and having Brissett, who they clearly didn't believe in, as the back up and putting the season at risk. 

2. Evaluating Brady this season with a highly competent QB backing him up in case he shows signs of a decline, while buying more time to possibly sign the him to a future contract? 

This also doesn't take into account that it's completely possible we were NEVER getting a 1st for Jimmy. Half the people in NFL Gen said a first round pick would be ridiculous and you had plenty of talking heads in the media saying the same. There was no gaurantee that we were ever going to do much better than an early 2nd and until Jimmy lit it up, we were looking at the 34th pick. 

Also yeah you do give up your "next big thing" if the 41 QB in question is the winningest QB in the near 100 year history of the game, most successful QB of all time, and still playing at an MVP level in the best longterm stretch (2014-present) of football he's ever played in his career. Jimmy could be a top 10 QB his entire career and never sniff what Brady is. 

[tonyto36]

17 hours ago, Starless said:

You can't really compare Belichick trading Bledsoe within the division to any potential trade of Brady. For one, Bledsoe was the first major trade he made as coach of the Patriots and while he probably didn't have a very high opinion of him to begin with, it was the only instance of him having ever traded a player to a team that could've potentially posed a threat to the Patriots, and it happened 16 years ago. Since then, look at where he's sent guys - Oakland, Cleveland, Tampa, Kansas City (when they still sucked), San Francisco... Your assertion that him not trading guys to teams that could threaten is "garbage media talk" is completely unsupported by facts.

Bottom line: He wasn't going to trade Brady before the 2017 season because there was no scenario in which it wouldn't have been a net negative and going into 2018, even with Garoppolo still on the roster, there was nowhere he could've sent him that would've gotten him a fair return.

You can't pay two quarterbacks 20 million dollars a year and field a competitive team.  There is absolutely no way to do it.

So you're going into 2018 with one or the other.  Waiting cost the Patriots a first round pick.  It makes no sense to do that and I personally don't believe Belichick would do that.

The only explanation, IMO, is that Belichick was pressured in one form or another of staying with Brady and jettisoning JG.  

[Apparition]

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

You can't pay two quarterbacks 20 million dollars a year and field a competitive team.  There is absolutely no way to do it.

So you're going into 2018 with one or the other.  Waiting cost the Patriots a first round pick.  It makes no sense to do that and I personally don't believe Belichick would do that.

The only explanation, IMO, is that Belichick was pressured in one form or another of staying with Brady and jettisoning JG.  

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your reasoning. Sorry.

[mission27]

6 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

You can't pay two quarterbacks 20 million dollars a year and field a competitive team.  There is absolutely no way to do it.

So you're going into 2018 with one or the other.  Waiting cost the Patriots a first round pick.  It makes no sense to do that and I personally don't believe Belichick would do that.

The only explanation, IMO, is that Belichick was pressured in one form or another of staying with Brady and jettisoning JG.  

It didn't cost the Patriots a first round pick.  It cost the Patriots the difference between a first round pick and a second round pick.  And a high second round pick at that.  When we traded Jimmy, the 49ers pick was like the 34th pick in the draft.  Now its going to be what, late 30s?  That's Bill's wheelhouse.  Bill has never valued top-10 picks all that highly.  Chances are we wouldn't have picked in the top-10 anyway and would've just traded down.  Or we could've traded Jimmy for a 2018 first round pick, he could've crushed it with his new team, and we could be picking in the 20s anyway or trading down to the 30s for some assets.   At the end of the day it probably cost the Patriots a couple third / fourth round picks we could've picked up in a trade down, which have some value, but I would argue you're getting a lot of value in preserving optionality by keeping Garoppolo around another six months that might be worth as much if not more.  Really don't think its the end of the world. 

[LD696]

On 2018. 01. 07. at 11:21 AM, ChazStandard said:

How, in your opinion does Brady's program cause harm to "society in general"? Water overdoses? Avocado allergies? Yoga poisoning?

As Starless already pointed out, he's selling false hope. And I've already pointed out that his business partner loves invoking the "doctors do you more harm than good" mantra. Once someone invests in his book/program, the dangerous downward spiral to woo begins (breaking out is hard to do from bad investments). Treating injuries and training the way Guerrero does (and Brady endorses) harms people and therefore harms society in general, because the people "maimed" by his methods will eventually end up in proper hospital care. Now, this may not be a problem in the US, where social security is practically nonexistent; but in an actual country, which cares for its citizens by providing socialized healthcare, these avoidable injuries put unnecessary strain and expenditure on the system and doctors. Maybe this is moot though, as such societies hardly exist anymore.

Water poisoning is a very real side effect of Brady's method. Just like overstretching your muscles and ligaments "yoga poisoning".

On 2018. 01. 07. at 11:21 AM, ChazStandard said:

That was literally my exact point. Starless said Brady could get sued for his "stupid" book. I was asking why a book that contains only common knowledge on a healthy lifestyle could a) ever be a source of litigation and b) be considered stupid. I'm glad you agree with me.

They literally shill it as "the only book an athlete will ever need". They promise a sustained peak performance. These are very attackable and dangerous claims in the litigation culture of the USA.

On 2018. 01. 07. at 11:21 AM, ChazStandard said:

Almost as good a decision as deciding something doesn't work because "there's only a small amount of evidence that it does". Bottom line, Brady follows his own advice and is about to win MVP at forty. Look at him, he's not agef as badly as athletes usually do either (compare him to Favre or Peyton at 40). For Brady, it works. Now, does that prove it works for everyone? No. People are different, body chemistry such vary from person to person. BUT if it works for Brady, that alone removes any tag of "unethical" behaviour.

My entire point is that I just don't see this ruining Brady's legacy, and I've yet to hear a realistic explanations as to how it could.

I've already said in the other thread, it's not a small amount of evidence we're talking about. It's zero evidence.Besides, Favre was known for his reckless playstyle; Peyton was destroyed by his neck surgeries. One was done in by a playstyle which was a polar opposite to Brady's, the other by an unfortunate injury. No amount of TB12™ Electrolyte could've prevented their decline.

If you think Brady's legacy cannot be tainted, just google Gwyneth Paltrow. How many articles will be presented about her acting career and how many about luxury enemas? Bill Maher will never wash the anti-waxxer off of himself. Alicia Silverstone is not a teen idol/actress anymore, but that crazy breastfeeding-lady. Bad labels are hard to wash down, especially when someone isn't trying.

[1ForTheThumb]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Hey guess what guys? Bill Belichick, Tom Brady and Robert Kraft will all be here next season. Unless you want to believe Michael Felger or Seth Wickersham.

#ESPNLies #OntoTennessee 

[tonyto36]

On 1/7/2018 at 11:45 AM, Starless said:

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your reasoning. Sorry.

Can you explain why?  It appears to me that you just don't want it to, because it makes all the sense in the world to me, while "Belichick isn't capable of evaluating talent unless they play six games for him to decide if they will suck, and he will wait to the last possible moment to decide if Brady can play, yet not wait until the trade deadline to trade Jimmy, not look for the best offer, and will do this after telling all teams JG was completely untouchable for 3 months and they aren't even entertaining calls" - makes much less sense.  

Belichick has ALWAYS been proactive.  Yet he got caught with his pants down on Brady/JG?  I don't think so.  

It basically comes down to if you think

1.  Belichick couldn't determine if Brady could play at a high level before the season started
2.  Belichick thought he needed another half season of practices to determine if JG could play
3.  Belichick decided he is a Niners fan and to give them a freebie and destroy him in a trade
4.  Belichick straight up lied for months to other GMs and was planning on just screwing them over to help the Niners.

If you believe all four, then yes, my logic doesn't make sense.  And if you believe all four, good luck to you on that bridge.  

29 minutes ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Hey guess what guys? Bill Belichick, Tom Brady and Robert Kraft will all be here next season. Unless you want to believe Michael Felger or Seth Wickersham.

#ESPNLies #OntoTennessee 

Where exactly did ANYONE claim that Belichick, Brady or Kraft wouldn't be here next year?

It's the exact opposite, the whole point was that Kraft demanded Brady stay.   The only QUESTION was if Belichick would leave.   QUESTION.  Not prediction.

#Getyourstorystraight #Youhavenoclue  #You'rewrongandbutthurt

[ChazStandard]

Quote

I've already said in the other thread, it's not a small amount of evidence we're talking about. It's zero evidence.Besides, Favre was known for his reckless playstyle; Peyton was destroyed by his neck surgeries. One was done in by a playstyle which was a polar opposite to Brady's, the other by an unfortunate injury. No amount of TB12™ Electrolyte could've prevented their decline.

I wasn't talking about play, I said he hadn't aged as badly as them. Both Peyton and Favre looked nearly 50 at 38. Brady is 40 but looks 30. Athletes almost universally age terribly. Now, that's not conclusive proof. But it does mean something. As for there being "zero evidence" it works, well, what would be evidence? Obviously this isn't scientific...but Brady does it and he credits it for his success. It seems your assertion there's no evidence it works is predicated on the assumption that Brady is either stupid or dishonest.

There's no point in just deciding it doesn't work because you think it's "woo", and then ignoring every piece of evidence that says otherwise. What good did closedmindedness ever do anyone?

Quote

Treating injuries and training the way Guerrero does (and Brady endorses) harms people

How so? Show me evidence of that.

Quote

Water poisoning is a very real side effect of Brady's method. Just like overstretching your muscles and ligaments "yoga poisoning".

And being dehydrated can kill you. And lifting weights with insufficient stretching and cardio work is bad for you. Everything in life is about moderation. I think my point went over your head, I'll try again: There is nothing in that book that is, of itself, bad advice. 

"Drink more water" is not bad advice because "drinking too much water is bad". Just like "get more exercise" isn't bad advice because you can run until your heart stops. If a doctor tells me to "eat more vegetables", and I eat celery until my stomach ruptures, he didn't give me bad advice or act unethically...I'm just a moron. If you're only criticism of the approach is "taken to extremes, it can be dangerous" then you'll never be happy with anything, because that statement is true of literally everything.

[Pats#1]

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

#Getyourstorystraight #Youhavenoclue  #You'rewrongandbutthurt

You seem REALLY emotionally invested in this

[1ForTheThumb]

3 minutes ago, Pats#1 said:

You seem REALLY emotionally invested in this

I've ignored like his last 5 posts and he continues to get worked up about it. Not sure what makes him more riled up- IT4, David Price or this story.

Multiple reporters close to the team, Belichick, Brady and Kraft have all shot down this non-sense but I'm the one who has no clue because I don't believe professional trolls like Felger, Mazz, Greg Bedard and Seth Wickersham.

Is tonyto "The Big" Jim Murray!? Hey man, continue to get worked up over this story. Believe what  you want to believe, doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'll continue to watch Belichick, Brady, Kraft and the Patriots continue their dominance as the greatest sports franchise of all time.

[Hunter2_1]

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

 

1.  Belichick couldn't determine if Brady could play at a high level before the season started

Yes. Obvious.

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

2.  Belichick thought he needed another half season of practices to determine if JG could play

I think he already knew JG could play, it was just needing games to see what TB12 tm could do.

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

3.  Belichick decided he is a Niners fan and to give them a freebie and destroy him in a trade

Not a niners fan, but certainly a Shanahan fam. I do genuinely believe he constructed the destination.

 

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

4.  Belichick straight up lied for months to other GMs and was planning on just screwing them over to help the Niners.

 

Not for me. To say he wasn't trading JG at the time (off-season) was accurate. If he said he had no intentions of trading him, that would be a ropey claim. He didn't KNOW if he was trading him until Tom showed us that he's still miles better than JG. He was probably giving other GMs the cold shoulder, knowing SF was the place.