3rivers Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Is this going to cost us the season? It has been bad enough that I think opposing teams could control the games if they run at will .Recently is the worst our run D has been in a long time IMO, not exactly playoff form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLambert58 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, 3rivers said: Is this going to cost us the season? It has been bad enough that I think opposing teams could control the games if they run at will .Recently is the worst our run D has been in a long time IMO, not exactly playoff form. The run D is giving up 12.5 more yards/game than last year. Averaging 12.5 additional yards worse than that in the last 3 games. We are missing Shazier. Wish they had given Wilcox a chance to chip in on run D against Cleveland just to see what he could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 25 yards per game is one way of looking at it. My problem is that is a generalized stat and doesn't account for say VS a good RB and playoff team that ran through us before these stats went up. What would Fournette gain vs us now is the issue, I can see him having a career day unless something suddenly changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 15 hours ago, JLambert58 said: The run D is giving up 12.5 more yards/game than last year. Averaging 12.5 additional yards worse than that in the last 3 games. We are missing Shazier. Wish they had given Wilcox a chance to chip in on run D against Cleveland just to see what he could do. Eh. It's really only marginally worse: In 2016 opposing teams rushed on us 369 times, for 1600 yards and 15 TD's. That's 4.3 YPC, 100 YPG, ~1 TD per game. That's 13th in the NFL for rush defense. In 2017 opposing teams rushed on us 385 times, for 1693 yards and 14 TD's. That's 4.4 YPC, 105.8 YPG, ~1 TD per game. That was good for 10th in the league. So not too sure where you got the 12.5 yards per game more than last year. Unless you were looking at the 2015 stats, which teams rushed on us 382 times for 1459 yards and 6 TD's. 3.8 YPA, 91.2 YPG, and about ~0.5 TD per game But here's the interesting thing for me: The Rush game was giving up an additional 5.8 yards per game (basically 1.5 extra rushes a game), but at the same time the passing defense is giving up 45 less yards a game. So net wise our defense is overall 40 yards better than last year (roughly). So I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over the rush defense being a little worse when it means our pass defense is so much better. It's a trade off I would be willing to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus-Viktor Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 The defense is (was) clearly better this year before Shazier went down. Now, you can throw all those stats out the window comparing entire seasons, because it's a new ball game without our best player, and the guy that the scheme was centered around (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Wait, the Defense is worse w/o the Starting Pro Bowl ILB? Crazy. Hopefully the Offense can generate enough points so the opposing Offenses cannot rely on the Run. The Run Defense is bad but I don't think it's insanely bad. I'm just gonna guess that there are past SB Champions with just as bad Run Defenses if not worse. As noted, it's all about the matchup. If we play the Jags, I have no faith in Bortles throwing the ball in Pittsburgh in Mid-January. They can Man-up and stack the box. If they somehow face the Chiefs, that could be a problem. Hunt can run and Smith can throw. If they face the Pats, I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that the Run Game isn't going to be what beats them. It will be Tom. Also, Wilcox is not the answer. Yes, what we have out there sucks but so does he. I don't see the point trading out one turd for another. They both stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLambert58 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, warfelg said: In 2016 opposing teams rushed on us 369 times, for 1600 yards and 15 TD's. That's 4.3 YPC, 100 YPG, ~1 TD per game. That's 13th in the NFL for rush defense. In 2017 opposing teams rushed on us 385 times, for 1693 yards and 14 TD's. That's 4.4 YPC, 105.8 YPG, ~1 TD per game. That was good for 10th in the league. So not too sure where you got the 12.5 yards per game more than last year. Unless you were looking at the 2015 stats, which teams rushed on us 382 times for 1459 yards and 6 TD's. 3.8 YPA, 91.2 YPG, and about ~0.5 TD per game I see where you got your stats. My stats came from here: NFL Team Opponent Rushing Yards per Game https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-rushing-yards-per-game?date=2018-01-06 2016 Pittsburgh 93.2 2017 Pittsburgh 105.8 Last 3 games 118.3 1 hour ago, warfelg said: The Rush game was giving up an additional 5.8 yards per game (basically 1.5 extra rushes a game), but at the same time the passing defense is giving up 45 less yards a game. So net wise our defense is overall 40 yards better than last year (roughly). If that is true, I see your point, however there is a reason why traditional defenses are designed to stop the run. Time of possession is critically important. Every time we get gashed for a 1st down run, that's more time Ben and the offense are off the field. Running success helps a QB get in rhythm. (see: Kizer, Deshone) And that can be problematic against good QBs. (We have faced quite a few sub-par QBs this year as we all know) I agree with your overall take that the defense has been fairly effective despite the run D problems, but to me, it's a critical component to the defense if we are going to advance to (and win) the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 28 minutes ago, JLambert58 said: I see where you got your stats. My stats came from here: NFL Team Opponent Rushing Yards per Game https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-rushing-yards-per-game?date=2018-01-06 2016 Pittsburgh 93.2 2017 Pittsburgh 105.8 Last 3 games 118.3 If that is true, I see your point, however there is a reason why traditional defenses are designed to stop the run. Time of possession is critically important. Every time we get gashed for a 1st down run, that's more time Ben and the offense are off the field. Running success helps a QB get in rhythm. (see: Kizer, Deshone) And that can be problematic against good QBs. (We have faced quite a few sub-par QBs this year as we all know) I agree with your overall take that the defense has been fairly effective despite the run D problems, but to me, it's a critical component to the defense if we are going to advance to (and win) the SB. The thing is the offense and defense are designed to work together. Our offense isn’t a huge TOP machine. Our offense is built to score a ton. Therefore the defense is built not to stop long TOP drives, but rather to play with a lead when the other team has to pass. They are built to be opportunistic when the opposing team has to take risks. I want to take the time to break this down to run games in wins/loses because I’m going to bet we got gashed bad in our losses (mostly Chi/Jax), and didn’t give up much in wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLambert58 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 34 minutes ago, warfelg said: Therefore the defense is built not to stop long TOP drives, but rather to play with a lead when the other team has to pass. They are built to be opportunistic when the opposing team has to take risks. I don't agree that our offense isn't built to control TOP. There is a reason why Bell had the most touches of any RB in the league this year. Of course, with AB, JuJu and Martavis, it's meant to have an explosive component too. The defense is meant to get the opposing offense off the field. Sure, playing with a lead is ideal, but how do we get that lead? Score and keep the other team from scoring. Get off the field on 3rd down and give the ball back to the offense. I agree, opportunity comes when you put the other team in bad situations. I'd argue we gave up more in those losses BECAUSE of our inability to stop the run. (and 5 INTs ha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjfollett Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 IMO, the way you compensate for a poor run D is to score a lot of points on O. That's what Manning and the Colts did for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 If you play a 3-4 and your NT and DE's are playing 1 gap style then they have to get more lucky in stopping the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, jebrick said: If you play a 3-4 and your NT and DE's are playing 1 gap style then they have to get more lucky in stopping the run. Or have Levon Kirkland playing ILB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzburgh Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 As bad as Bortles is playing I think we just do what Buffalo did and stack the box. Make Bortles win the game. If our secondary can communicate, not have any assignment breakdowns, and not give up the big play we should be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Blitzburgh said: As bad as Bortles is playing I think we just do what Buffalo did and stack the box. Make Bortles win the game. If our secondary can communicate, not have any assignment breakdowns, and not give up the big play we should be OK. And have Spence be a spy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: Or have Levon Kirkland playing ILB. and Joel Steed at NT 0 technique. I liked the game more back then at least on D. Our O bothered me at times though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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