Rams 2018 offseason

[jrry32]

11 hours ago, BEASToftheEAST4 said:

Wasn't sure where to put this (and I didn't think it was worthwhile to have its own thread) but,

Dominique Easley... I know I've been writing him off as far as us retaining him, and I'd assume most others here have as well (understandably so). If we were to keep him, we would ideally put him at LDE and have Brockers back at NT. I know Brockers looks a better fit at End in this defense rather than Tackle, but Easley looked pretty good with us the season he actually played and this would eliminate our need for a NT this offseason. Is Easley just not a fit in this defense? Are we that concerned about his durability at this point? Do we just think we could improve over him?

I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on us re-signing him.

I'm not saying I down right think we should do it; just exploring options, really.

You don't move Brockers to NT to get Easley on the field. At most, Easley is a rotational guy. He doesn't stay healthy. We shouldn't count on him for anything. Brockers plays DE. We address NT in FA or the Draft.

[BStanRamFan]

One name I haven't seen on this forum as FA pick up is Brian Cushing. I would like to see him brought in on a 1yr vet deal since he is so injury prone. But his best years were with Wade in a 3-4 and he was a USC guy so connections are there.

[Dr LBC]

3 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

One name I haven't seen on this forum as FA pick up is Brian Cushing. I would like to see him brought in on a 1yr vet deal since he is so injury prone. But his best years were with Wade in a 3-4 and he was a USC guy so connections are there.

Hard pass.  He was playing the Tree/Donnie Edwards role... as indicated by the fact that Wade literally had them bring in Bradie James from the Cowboys to play alongside Cushing in the same role he'd played in Dallas.  We need the Brady James role filled, not the Cushing role.  The free agent LB crop on the whole is pretty unimpressive of the guys I actually expect to hit the market (which means I'm excluding PIerre-Louis, Bowman, Williamson, and a couple others).

[Fragafootball]

 I think we need to get some players that fit Wade Phillips scheme better. A Big bodied ILB some faster edge rushers. Either an NT or a DE and move Brockers back inside. CB is definitely our biggest need right now. 

On offense I'd like to focus on upgrading our Guards before grooming for the future, especially at LG. We also need to figure out if our TEs are the kind of TEs we can build on or if we need to pick up a FA. 

I like where we are this off season, we can let some big contracts go and pick up some talent. 

[Fragafootball]

On 1/26/2018 at 1:33 AM, jrry32 said:

You don't move Brockers to NT to get Easley on the field. At most, Easley is a rotational guy. He doesn't stay healthy. We shouldn't count on him for anything. Brockers plays DE. We address NT in FA or the Draft.

I think that looking at the talent in FA and the draft we can get a higher quality DE over NT. That alone makes me lean more towards moving Brockers inside and picking someone else up at DE. 

I like Brockers and AD working side by side, those two complement each other perfectly when working together on the same side of the OL. 

[jrry32]

4 minutes ago, Fragafootball said:

I think that looking at the talent in FA and the draft we can get a higher quality DE over NT. That alone makes me lean more towards moving Brockers inside and picking someone else up at DE. 

I like Brockers and AD working side by side, those two complement each other perfectly when working together on the same side of the OL. 

I strongly disagree. The draft is stocked with NTs, and there are some good, cheap options at NT in FA. Wade moved Brockers to DE and away from NT because he wanted to best use his skill-set. Brockers thrived there. We shouldn't play one of our best defensive players out of position.

[Dr LBC]

13 minutes ago, Fragafootball said:

I think that looking at the talent in FA and the draft we can get a higher quality DE over NT. That alone makes me lean more towards moving Brockers inside and picking someone else up at DE. 

I like Brockers and AD working side by side, those two complement each other perfectly when working together on the same side of the OL. 

You'll also pay more for that higher quality DE over the NT.  And that's not something we should be doing when we have a supremely higher quality DE already on our roster who we have yet to lock up long-term.  It's utterly obtuse to pay a free agent DE before Donald is extended and once Donald is extended it's irresponsible to have beaucoup bucks tied up in all three DL spots as it means we're likely to have to sacrifice one of them when it comes time to extending the key pieces of our offense (namely Goff and Gurley).

[Dr LBC]

26 minutes ago, Fragafootball said:

 I think we need to get some players that fit Wade Phillips scheme better. A Big bodied ILB some faster edge rushers. Either an NT or a DE and move Brockers back inside. CB is definitely our biggest need right now. 

On offense I'd like to focus on upgrading our Guards before grooming for the future, especially at LG. We also need to figure out if our TEs are the kind of TEs we can build on or if we need to pick up a FA. 

I like where we are this off season, we can let some big contracts go and pick up some talent. 

It's not about big bodies in the LB corps and it never has been.  Wade's managed just fine in his scheme with guys who weren't much bigger than 6'0", 240.  Bigger than Barron?  Certainly, but Barron's a "linebacker"-converted-from-safety.  The important quality for what we need from an ILB in Wade's scheme, because it's something that hasn't really been Tree's strength, is the ability to shed/get-off blocks.  Ideally you'd like to see them be able to stack and shed, but Wade's had success with guys like Trevathan and Marshall in the past who never stacked, but were fantastic at using their hands early and often to keep blockers from being able to land a solid punch on them to force them to cede ground in the run game.

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, The LBC said:

It's not about big bodies in the LB corps and it never has been.  Wade's managed just fine in his scheme with guys who weren't much bigger than 6'0", 240.  Bigger than Barron?  Certainly, but Barron's a "linebacker"-converted-from-safety.  The important quality for what we need from an ILB in Wade's scheme, because it's something that hasn't really been Tree's strength, is the ability to shed/get-off blocks.  Ideally you'd like to see them be able to stack and shed, but Wade's had success with guys like Trevathan and Marshall in the past who never stacked, but were fantastic at using their hands early and often to keep blockers from being able to land a solid punch on them to force them to cede ground in the run game.

I like Barron, but with us playing Ogletree, I'm thinking Barron is a goner. I expect we'll see Todd Davis here next year or a similar LB. We need a guy who can fill gaps in the running game. Adding a powerful NT and a ILB like Davis will vastly improve our run defense. We mostly got gashed this year straight up the gut.

[Fragafootball]

We have a couple young OLBs in Longacre and Ebukhan that will fight for a starting spot next year. I like the ideia of getting someone like Cushing for Baron's spot. He did have some great seasons with Wade and he wouldn't cost too much.

Who could we target at NT for free agency? Ngata? Poe? Richardson probably won't be available. I don't see any pure 3-4 NTs available and I don't really see talent worth starting Day one dropping to us In the draft. 

Now imagine there is a Ziggy Ansah, Demarcus Lawrence at free agency, or even JPP. Big names that if you pair with Donald and Brockers gives us the best DL in football. Plus I like edge rushers like Harold Landry and Arden Key from the draft, who may be available late round 1.

We can move on from Baron and Tavon and put that cap space to extending Donald. I think building the strongest front 7 possible right now puts us in the drivers seat in the NFC. I think it's worth it when we can afford to do it. 

[Dr LBC]

4 minutes ago, Fragafootball said:

We have a couple young OLBs in Longacre and Ebukhan that will fight for a starting spot next year. I like the ideia of getting someone like Cushing for Baron's spot. He did have some great seasons with Wade and he wouldn't cost too much.

Who could we target at NT for free agency? Ngata? Poe? Richardson probably won't be available. I don't see any pure 3-4 NTs available and I don't really see talent worth starting Day one dropping to us In the draft. 

Now imagine there is a Ziggy Ansah, Demarcus Lawrence at free agency, or even JPP. Big names that if you pair with Donald and Brockers gives us the best DL in football. Plus I like edge rushers like Harold Landry and Arden Key from the draft, who may be available late round 1.

We can move on from Baron and Tavon and put that cap space to extending Donald. I think building the strongest front 7 possible right now puts us in the drivers seat in the NFC. I think it's worth it when we can afford to do it. 

I don't mean this to come off as insulting, but I don't know that you understand the Phillips-Burroughs 3-4 or how Wade has adapted it in recent years (i.e. Denver forward) all that well.  The ILB's have distinctly different duties in how they're schemed and utilized.

Also, edge-rushers are always more likely to propel up in the draft, especially in the 1st round than interior guys are.

[Fragafootball]

5 hours ago, The LBC said:

I don't mean this to come off as insulting, but I don't know that you understand the Phillips-Burroughs 3-4 or how Wade has adapted it in recent years (i.e. Denver forward) all that well.  The ILB's have distinctly different duties in how they're schemed and utilized.

Also, edge-rushers are always more likely to propel up in the draft, especially in the 1st round than interior guys are.

I mean... that's is basically what I am saying. Ogletree is a quick smart LB. He can cover the pass as well as Chase a RB but he isn't a big body to plug in holes. That is why I don't think Baron fit the scheme as well. Even though I like Baron.

i think the most important part of this defense is the versatility of the front 7. The best thing about Donald and Brockers is they can line up anywhere on the line. If you pair that up with versatile LBs that can drop back to cover or pressure the QB you have the scheme that Phillips loves. His defenses specialty is disguising the rush and overwhelming the blocking scheme.

You didn't insult me at all. I just think you might have misunderstood me. I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. I'm just seeing what is in the market. I would love to see us sign a NT that fits our scheme I just don't see one in FA and I haven't been too impressed with the draft class of interior rushers. I'm looking for names at ILB. Someone mentioned Todd Davis, he's really not that good of a player, I even did some research after @jrry32 mock draft and most of what I heard and saw was pretty negative. So I'm looking at names that may be available and fit our scheme better. 

[BEASToftheEAST4]

11 hours ago, Fragafootball said:

We have a couple young OLBs in Longacre and Ebukhan that will fight for a starting spot next year. I like the ideia of getting someone like Cushing for Baron's spot. He did have some great seasons with Wade and he wouldn't cost too much.

Who could we target at NT for free agency? Ngata? Poe? Richardson probably won't be available. I don't see any pure 3-4 NTs available and I don't really see talent worth starting Day one dropping to us In the draft. 

Now imagine there is a Ziggy Ansah, Demarcus Lawrence at free agency, or even JPP. Big names that if you pair with Donald and Brockers gives us the best DL in football. Plus I like edge rushers like Harold Landry and Arden Key from the draft, who may be available late round 1.

We can move on from Baron and Tavon and put that cap space to extending Donald. I think building the strongest front 7 possible right now puts us in the drivers seat in the NFC. I think it's worth it when we can afford to do it. 

If you ask me, all of those FA's are pure 4-3 DE's. If anything, they'd be an edge rusher for us--they most certainly wouldn't play on the line in a three man front. Regardless, I think it's all a moot point because I'd put it at about  a 3% chance that we'd go after them (if they even hit the open market) and that's me being generous.

Landry or Key would certainly be enticing options if they were to fall to us in the draft. I expect them to be selected higher, but you really never know what could happen in the draft.

 

Going off of another post of yours in this thread, I agree that we need an improvement alongside Ogletree at ILB. I also agree that Todd Davis doesn't exactly qualify as an improvement, despite him having experience in Wade's system. I disagree, however, on the idea of bringing Cushing in. I think he's worn out his welcome in the league at this point, between his injuries and his inability to refrain from roiding up. You can't count on him to play.

The worst part about the Ogletree/Barron duo is that we know we need a replacement. We know that Barron is the odd man out between the two if we do get someone else. But I honestly think Barron played better this year. I think that they're just about as even as it gets in terms of athleticism. I think Tree is a fiery leader and that can't be quantified, but Barron is the more reliable, sound tackler. If we were to keep one of the two, I'd actually prefer it to be Barron. I just know that that won't be the case. Regarldless, we can't move forward with two undersized guys at the ILB position in this defense.

[BStanRamFan]

Would LOVE to put Roquan Smith next to Ogletree. Let Barron walk and use the money on Trumaine. Doubt he falls that far though

[BStanRamFan]

I've seen a few Mock Offseason's giving us Jimmy Graham. One was from a Broncos fan on the MockDraft page. I just don't understand this? I like Higbee and Everett and if we sign any TE it would be Jordan Reed. Is there something I'm missing ?

In the same mock, I saw Barron traded for Aqib Talib straight up, which intrigued me. How much does Talib have in the tank? Seems to be a fit scheme/coach wise, but his attitude doesn't seem to be what McVay covets.