AlexGreen#20 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 32 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said: This touches on why I like Davenport just a little bit better than Landry (I'll admit it is a close call). Davenport is comfortable taking on the big guys head-to-head, does it all the time. If you do that regularly (and you aren't stupid) you improve your hand-fighting, body control and how best to turn speed to power. I'd rather coach him on how to run the arc better, than teach Landry to go head-to-head as a regular part of his repertoire. Not sure the speed rush is really one that can be taught. Davenport's a stiff guy which isn't uncommon for being as big as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 For those that are wondering on the rookie cap hits and how that affects the GB cap situation. pick cap hit 2018 remove from top 51 Net cap change 14 $2,507,504 $605,484 $1,902,020 45 $1,140,397 $573,759 $566,638 76 $714,103 $566,666 $147,437 101 $667,830 $566,666 $101,164 133 $593,591 $555,000 $38,591 138 $561,443 $555,000 $6,443 172 $534,630 $555,000 -$20,370 174 $534,630 $555,000 -$20,370 186 $520,689 $555,000 -$34,311 207 $509,732 $480,000 $29,732 232 $502,456 $480,000 $22,456 239 $499,421 $480,000 $19,421 totals $9,286,426 $6,527,575 $2,758,851 So the net cap cost of the rookie draft picks....(as they are currently slotted) would be..... $2,758,851 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Not sure the speed rush is really one that can be taught. Davenport's a stiff guy which isn't uncommon for being as big as he is. Maybe he cannot do a pure speed rush at a very high level, but if he can use his hands to disrupt his opponents on one side, that would allow him to slide around his opponent as long as he can dip a bit. I guess time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 "Former LSU defensive end and top draft prospect Arden Key has told teams that he has been sober for more than a year" Hmmmmmmm......thats a tough B&^%$ to beat and given recent crash and burn examples of Manziel and Aldon Smith teams will probably be very wary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 13 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Not sure the speed rush is really one that can be taught. Davenport's a stiff guy which isn't uncommon for being as big as he is. Davenport does not have the bend of Landry but I hope your not saying he’s some stiff that can’t bend? He definitely has some bend to his game. I think you can get a little more out of anyone with a little coaching. It just may not come quite as naturally but you can improve your technique there too. I would argue the same with Landry’s power move. Not much there but a year or 2 with the strength coach and some work on technique and he could developed a great speed to power move with his speed around the corner. It all depends on the individual and what god put inside them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 https://www.ndtscouting.com/solak-now-available-the-2018-contextualized-quarterbacking/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 hour ago, MantyWrestler said: Davenport does not have the bend of Landry but I hope your not saying he’s some stiff that can’t bend? He definitely has some bend to his game. I think you can get a little more out of anyone with a little coaching. It just may not come quite as naturally but you can improve your technique there too. I would argue the same with Landry’s power move. Not much there but a year or 2 with the strength coach and some work on technique and he could developed a great speed to power move with his speed around the corner. It all depends on the individual and what god put you snide them. Davenport just doesn't run the arc well. Bad college offensive tackles cheat on the move they're expecting. Davenport beats guys to the edge when he catches them cheating, Landry beats guys to the edge when they're expecting it. That's the significant difference between the two and theyre ability to speed rush. Counterpoint, Landry hasn't shown any kind of counter power in his game, purely on versatility of their rush game you have to hold Davenport in higher regard. Counter-counterpoint, you don't need to have a very diverse game to be a threatening pass rusher. Vic Beasley doesn't have any power game to speak of, but he gets it done. Counter-counter-counterpoint, Harold Landry isn't the athlete that Vic Beasley is both in shorts and in pads, and do you need to be a genuinely top tier athlete to operate as a one trick pony? Counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, Are we sure Harold Landry isn't a genuinely top tier athlete? He's got a better 3-cone time (generally the most positive indicator of edge rusher success) than Beasley (admittedly only three hundreths better) at 6 pounds heavier. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, Beasley absolutely blows Landry out of the water in the 40 time (4.53 vs 4.64) and jumps (41"/130" vs. 36"/119"). While they have a very similar 3-cone time, Beasley's just got a better first step and it shows on the field and in the numbers. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, We all get that Besley is a genuine freak of nature rusher, but isn't 75% of a healthy Vic Beasley a very functional player in this league? Beasley had 15.5 sacks as a sophomore when he was healthy. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, This isn't a comparison of Landry vs. Beasley though, this is a comparison of Landry vs. Davenport. Landry may have more upside as a pass rusher, but Davenport isn't a schlub in that regard. He's a very good power rusher prospect who should adjust well to run defense in the NFL, where Landry looks like he might get run over. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, I don't think anyone is debating the notion that Landry is a safer pick than Davenport. It's very difficult to imagine Davenport ever busting out of the league. Even if his power doesn't translate you're still talking about a guy who can be a plug and play dependable backup who will give you something. If Landry's speed rush doesn't come with him, i'm not sure there's a spot for him on an NFL defense. Landry's got the higher floor and the lower ceiling, the question is where do you see him between those two points. If you're confident he's a burner around the edge who is going to constantly threaten the edge with his first step then you go Landry. If you're concerned that NFL OTs are going to shut him down when hands land and drive him back into your ILBs on run downs, then you take Davenport. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, Can we afford another bust on defense? Clay's legs are starting to go and neither he nor Perry can be relied on to stay healthy. Fackrell and Biegel aren't inspiring confidence either. We could seriously blow this season due to a lack of pass rush if we don't get SOMETHING out of this draft that can fluster a QB. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, Can we really afford another decent but non-difference maker on this defense? We've got like 5 guys on this defense that fall just short of the star moniker. All that happens is we end up overpaying them star money because some other team thinks they could be a star and we don't want to lose them. This defense needs a genuine Von Miller/justin Houston style difference maker. Another player who doesn't noticeably move the needle doesn't do anything for us. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, We're not that far away as a team, one solid contributor could push us over the edge. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, I disagree, I don't see the talent on this team as being anywhere near what it needs to be to be a super bowl contender, especially on defense. Skypilot: Well if Ted Thompson hadn't signed AJ Hawk to a 12 year contract for the most guaranteed money in the history of professional sports, we wouldn't be in this position. HtZ: I swear to God if we draft Quenton Nelson I'm going to drive to GB and personally burn down that god forsaken building. NormSizedMidget: firegute.com AG20: Check out this play I found that I thought was interesting, neat. Acts like he's not at all bitter nobody posts in his threads packfanfb: Jake Ryan needs to be cut. BobFox: 8 paragraphs summarizing the Packers offseason for the 7th time, a few Chris Landry quotes, and some mediocre surface level analysis Packerraymond: Being in Green Bay is not a disadvantage for signing players Incog, SkiBrett, Squire, Spilltray, Etc: How come I don't get a mocking line? Everyone else: Why am I still reading this? AG20: Why am I still writing this? Allison Brie: Because you're still drunk from last night. Fin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Let's make history and draft the girl in the picture at #14. First female ever drafted. Our cheerleading squad would rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Davenport just doesn't run the arc well. Bad college offensive tackles cheat on the move they're expecting. Davenport beats guys to the edge when he catches them cheating, Landry beats guys to the edge when they're expecting it. That's the significant difference between the two and theyre ability to speed rush. Counterpoint, Landry hasn't shown any kind of counter power in his game, purely on versatility of their rush game you have to hold Davenport in higher regard. Counter-counterpoint, you don't need to have a very diverse game to be a threatening pass rusher. Vic Beasley doesn't have any power game to speak of, but he gets it done. Counter-counter-counterpoint, Harold Landry isn't the athlete that Vic Beasley is both in shorts and in pads, and do you need to be a genuinely top tier athlete to operate as a one trick pony? Counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, Are we sure Harold Landry isn't a genuinely top tier athlete? He's got a better 3-cone time (generally the most positive indicator of edge rusher success) than Beasley (admittedly only three hundreths better) at 6 pounds heavier. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, Beasley absolutely blows Landry out of the water in the 40 time (4.53 vs 4.64) and jumps (41"/130" vs. 36"/119"). While they have a very similar 3-cone time, Beasley's just got a better first step and it shows on the field and in the numbers. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, We all get that Besley is a genuine freak of nature rusher, but isn't 75% of a healthy Vic Beasley a very functional player in this league? Beasley had 15.5 sacks as a sophomore when he was healthy. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, This isn't a comparison of Landry vs. Beasley though, this is a comparison of Landry vs. Davenport. Landry may have more upside as a pass rusher, but Davenport isn't a schlub in that regard. He's a very good power rusher prospect who should adjust well to run defense in the NFL, where Landry looks like he might get run over. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, I don't think anyone is debating the notion that Landry is a safer pick than Davenport. It's very difficult to imagine Davenport ever busting out of the league. Even if his power doesn't translate you're still talking about a guy who can be a plug and play dependable backup who will give you something. If Landry's speed rush doesn't come with him, i'm not sure there's a spot for him on an NFL defense. Landry's got the higher floor and the lower ceiling, the question is where do you see him between those two points. If you're confident he's a burner around the edge who is going to constantly threaten the edge with his first step then you go Landry. If you're concerned that NFL OTs are going to shut him down when hands land and drive him back into your ILBs on run downs, then you take Davenport. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, Can we afford another bust on defense? Clay's legs are starting to go and neither he nor Perry can be relied on to stay healthy. Fackrell and Biegel aren't inspiring confidence either. We could seriously blow this season due to a lack of pass rush if we don't get SOMETHING out of this draft that can fluster a QB. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, Can we really afford another decent but non-difference maker on this defense? We've got like 5 guys on this defense that fall just short of the star moniker. All that happens is we end up overpaying them star money because some other team thinks they could be a star and we don't want to lose them. This defense needs a genuine Von Miller/justin Houston style difference maker. Another player who doesn't noticeably move the needle doesn't do anything for us. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, We're not that far away as a team, one solid contributor could push us over the edge. Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint, I disagree, I don't see the talent on this team as being anywhere near what it needs to be to be a super bowl contender, especially on defense. Skypilot: Well if Ted Thompson hadn't signed AJ Hawk to a 12 year contract for the most guaranteed money in the history of professional sports, we wouldn't be in this position. HtZ: I swear to God if we draft Quenton Nelson I'm going to drive to GB and personally burn down that god forsaken building. NormSizedMidget: firegute.com AG20: Check out this play I found that I thought was interesting, neat. Acts like he's not at all bitter nobody posts in his threads packfanfb: Jake Ryan needs to be cut. BobFox: 8 paragraphs summarizing the Packers offseason for the 7th time, a few Chris Landry quotes, and some mediocre surface level analysis Packerraymond: Being in Green Bay is not a disadvantage for signing players Incog, SkiBrett, Squire, Spilltray, Etc: How come I don't get a mocking line? Everyone else: Why am I still reading this? AG20: Why am I still writing this? Allison Brie: Because you're still drunk from last night. Fin I actually only quoted this to get Allison Brie’s picture on here again. Oh, nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Squire, Allison Brie: Because you .... I read the entire post, funny that this is all that stood out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Here's the thing for me. I don't think anyone would argue Landry will rely on speed, while Davenport will rely on power. Question for me is, doesn't the power guy have an edge in longevity per production ? I'm certainly not saying I lean Davenport. I'm not smart enough to make an intelligent call on that. I just wonder if his freak attributes (height, length, power) will age better assuming his technique gets cleaned up. Could he be a rich man's Perry ? I loved Clay - but that first step is the first thing to go and I've seen him routed 10 yards passed the QB more times than I can count. For some reason that really irritates me and the lane left open has been exploited numerous times. I would have been a fan of leaving him inside more often than not. I think he stays relevant on more plays from there than when playing outside at this stage of his career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, cannondale said: Here's the thing for me. I don't think anyone would argue Landry will rely on speed, while Davenport will rely on power. Question for me is doesn't the power guy have and edge in longevity per production ? I loved Clay - but that first step is the first thing to go and I've seen him routed 10 yards passed the QB more times than I can count. For some reason that really irritates me and the lane left open has been exploited numerous times Quote: Harold Landry is all about his speed rushes. I mean I wouldn’t exactly expect a guy who is 6’3 and 250 pounds to be using a lot of power rushes anyway. With Landry, however, he relied heavily on his ability to run around offensive tackles in the four games that I watched. That wasn’t necessarily a bad thing since he was pretty damn good at it, but you usually can’t win that often with speed alone in the NFL. What I saw that I liked out of his speed rushes were excellent get-offs, good flexibility to duck under the tackle’s punch and lean into the turn, and a really good burst to finish at the quarterback. What I didn’t see on most of those speed rushes was Landry using his hands to keep the tackles’ hands off of him. There were so many times where Landry had a good speed rush going, but the tackle would end up pushing him just past the level of the quarterback. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/13/17159106/harold-landry-breakdown-2018-nfl-draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 19 minutes ago, Leader said: What I didn’t see on most of those speed rushes was Landry using his hands to keep the tackles’ hands off of him. You have to be really elite to make that work. Clay did it for X amount of years. Pro tackles are experts at routing, holding, and even the mugging technique Campen has started teaching. That speed and especially bend has a short shelf life. I'm probably being too critical as 4 elite years would be pretty good, but anything short of elite God given attributes out of college has you being pushed to the ground trying to get around the edge or just flat out mugged if you try anything different. Heck if I know if Landry has enough of them. That's why I brought up the power vs speed question. Maybe Davenport could be a poor man's Ware or a rich man's Perry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 16 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Not sure the speed rush is really one that can be taught. Davenport's a stiff guy which isn't uncommon for being as big as he is. I don't like Davenport or Landry, but would rather take Landry in a heartbeat for this reason alone. Landry's actually shown he can be explosive, yet he's been inconsistent. Davenport has played against a lower level of competition and has proven he has very little explosion; not to mention the fact that he's easily stood up and knocked back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Thanks a million for the points and the Counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoints on the EDGE players I have more faith in Joe Whitt to make it work with a variety of players at CB, and less faith in Pettine/Moss/Graham to make it work with a variety of players at OLB The Packers clearly looked at vet CBs like Trumaine Johnson and Kevin Fuller, while bringing in House/Tramon. They made no attempts with vet pass rushers so far as I know. Gute also commented on the variety of methods to fill the CB hole, he made no such comments about filling the pass rushing role. It doesn't seem like there will be a worthy CB candidate available at 14 ( and maybe that's why the Packers pursued vet CBs) It looks more favorable for finding a worthy pass rusher at that slot - that's why its so illuminating to read all of the point/counters on those 2 prospects thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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