squire12 Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 56 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Am I the only one that wants to double dip on pass rushers in 1/2? Would not be opposed to it at all. All depends on how FA goes and what needs are filled, what players are kept and re-signed. So much to play out before the draft gets here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Just now, packfanfb said: Personally, assuming the board isnt drastically against it, I'd love our first 4 picks (1st, 2nd and two 3rds) to be a combo of 2 edge guys, a WR and TE. We have enough young guys already in our secondary. Look to adds vets at CB and safety if needed. I agree with this logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNPackfan32 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Pass rush moves are totally irrelevant to me. The good pass rushers in the league have the things you can't teach. A bull rush is about the easiest pass rush move to learn. Most of these guys couldn't be stopped in college, why use an array of moves when what you're doing continuously works? I disagree. You have to be a certain powerful athlete to be able to pull it off and you need the mindset. On top of that, Key doesn't have the shock in his hands Davenport does. I just see Davenport being a guy who gets pressure/hurries much more consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, MNPackfan32 said: I disagree. You have to be a certain powerful athlete to be able to pull it off and you need the mindset. On top of that, Key doesn't have the shock in his hands Davenport does. I just see Davenport being a guy who gets pressure/hurries much more consistently. I just don't see why anybody wants to make this call on January 21st. If Davenport can't jump, that evaluation becomes very different for most people. If Key has a 6.75 3-cone we're talking about very different things. Similarly if Davenport has a 48" vertical, we're talking about a guy with elite power potential. Until we see it in shorts, this is very much picking your favorite flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNPackfan32 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I just don't see why anybody wants to make this call on January 21st. If Davenport can't jump, that evaluation becomes very different for most people. If Key has a 6.75 3-cone we're talking about very different things. Similarly if Davenport has a 48" vertical, we're talking about a guy with elite power potential. Until we see it in shorts, this is very much picking your favorite flavor. That's certainly fair, I'm just going off of tape. Tape still has to play a little role in pass rushers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, MNPackfan32 said: That's certainly fair, I'm just going off of tape. Tape still has to play a little role in pass rushers. Undoubtedly, my tape takeaway is, Davenport is a power rusher who struggles to bend. Key is a speed rusher who hasn't developed a power game. Need measurements to evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Another factor is that fans may never know the extent, circumstances, and details of Key's red flags. It seems as if teams have lightened up a bit but remember that big crackdown happened not too long ago Generally speaking, I wonder if RB's are trending back to the first round with the recent successes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Wow, Jeremiah really stole the thunder on Isaiah Oliver. Although that's 1 full round earlier than I liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I agree with this logic. Only issue I have is that I feel Randall is a slot. House doesn’t come across as a long term solution as a #2 to me. I just think we need another #1 or #2 CB. 2 pass rushers, 1 CB and. TE. We can get a WR in free agency or after the 3rd. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Undoubtedly, my tape takeaway is, Davenport is a power rusher who struggles to bend. Key is a speed rusher who hasn't developed a power game. Need measurements to evaluate. Why do you think Davenport struggles to bend? In the videos I’ve watched he like never uses a speed rush, just goes through his man. He rarely has to really bend the edge. Senior Bowl and combine will surely help the evaluation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 10:35 PM, MNPackfan32 said: I think it's a fair question. At this point though, I'm not sure how Key>Davenport could be a thing. Functional power/hands is a much bigger concern with Key, than bend is with Davenport. Then you talk about the difference off the field... I mean, I could see the argument for either one. But I think you'd have to go back and look at Key's 2016 tape, and use that as a bigger evaluation tool. I'm not sure I looked through any of his 2017 games, and felt he was utilized correctly. He was used in more an off-ball LB role rather than as a pass rusher, which is his future in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 11:25 PM, MNPackfan32 said: Davenport has at least shown bend. I have seen 0 power/hands from Key, absolutely nothing. Can't run around NFL Tackles. Von Miller. And it's not necessarily that you have to be able to run around tackles, it's that you have to have the ability to threaten off the edge and then develop a counter to that. I mean, Osi Umenyiora made a living off that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 9:03 AM, HorizontoZenith said: Am I the only one that wants to double dip on pass rushers in 1/2? Value would have to be insane for me to grab two pass rushers, although I wouldn't complain about taking two pass rushers. You can never have too many pass rushers. That being said, you're going to have a WR, CB, or TE that is of value and fits a bigger role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNPackfan32 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Von Miller. And it's not necessarily that you have to be able to run around tackles, it's that you have to have the ability to threaten off the edge and then develop a counter to that. I mean, Osi Umenyiora made a living off that. Von Miller is the king of speed to power. You have to develop some sort of power move. I have seem nothing even remotely close to this from Key. I went in really wanting to like Key, and there are some very valuable traits to his game, I'm just super concerned when I see no power and no shock in his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Just now, MNPackfan32 said: Von Miller is the king of speed to power. You have to develop some sort of power move And why is Von Miller so successful in this way? Because he's a threat to turn the edge every single time he rushes the passer. There's a reason why I refuse to take any pass rusher who can't threaten off the edge. If you can't threaten off the edge, the OL is just going to anchor and in most cases as long as your OL has good technique they're going to lock up your pass rushers. Power develops, first step/burst doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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