Least important position on defense?

[ugLymayNe]

4-3: the teams worst starting LB

3-4: the teams worst starting DL

Pretty simple, as these are the guys leaving the field in nickel packages

[Carmen Cygni]

34 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

So let’s assume you have to play the leagues worst defensive player at 1 position on defense. Id take the worst FS and just play a lot of cover 1 & 3. You can easily hide a bad FS more than any other position IMO. 

You're going to give up a **** ton of plays down  MOF. I'm going to have my QB eye banging him all day to open up the seams and get my receivers on top of him for the bug play. Of course, that's if I have to bother considering your FS is bad and has trouble recognizing concepts and making the proper coverage calls.

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, Carmen Cygni said:

Ah OK. We're talking ideal situations then . . . in that case every position is over-rated except for DT. All a defense really needs is a dominant DT who can just get in the backfield and either stop the run, or sack the QB. Everyone else is expendable.

 

Listen man, Safety is one of the mos important positions on the field. just for starters, they make all the strength and coverage calls for the back 7, they can provide deuce coverages, and help prevent big plays (12+ run, 16+ pass)

DTs and DEs.  Yes.  The Dline is the most important unit on the field for the defense.  NFL GMs understand this which is why they are compensated that way:

Player	Team	Total  Value	Avg./Year	Total  Guaranteed	Avg.  Guar./Year	% Guar.	Free  Agency
Ndamukong Suh	Dolphins	$114,375,000	$19,062,500	$59,955,000	$9,992,500	52.4%	2021 UFA
Fletcher Cox	Eagles	$102,600,000	$17,100,000	$36,299,000	$6,049,833	35.4%	2023 UFA
Kawann Short	Panthers	$80,500,000	$16,100,000	$35,000,000	$7,000,000	43.5%	2022 UFA
Marcell Dareus	Jaguars	$95,100,000	$15,850,000	$42,900,000	$7,150,000	45.1%	2022 UFA
Malik Jackson	Jaguars	$85,500,000	$14,250,000	$31,500,000	$5,250,000	36.8%	2022 UFA

 

Player	Team	Total  Value ▾	Avg./Year	Total  Guaranteed	Avg.  Guar./Year	% Guar.	Free  Agency
J.J. Watt	Texans	$100,000,000	$16,666,667	$20,876,385	$3,479,398	20.9%	2022 UFA
Muhammad Wilkerson	Jets	$86,000,000	$17,200,000	$36,750,000	$7,350,000	42.7%	2021 UFA
Jurrell Casey	Titans	$60,400,000	$15,100,000	$22,000,000	$5,500,000	36.4%	2023 UFA
Stephon Tuitt	Steelers	$60,000,000	$12,000,000	$14,000,000	$2,800,000	23.3%	2023 UFA
Brandon Williams	Ravens	$52,500,000	$10,500,000	$24,500,000	$4,900,000	46.7%	2022 UFA
Cameron Heyward	Steelers	$52,281,000	$10,456,200	$16,000,000	$3,200,000	30.6%	2021 UFA

 

Player	Team	Total  Value ▾	Avg./Year	Total  Guaranteed	Avg.  Guar./Year	% Guar.	Free  Agency
Olivier Vernon	Giants	$85,000,000	$17,000,000	$40,000,000	$8,000,000	47.1%	2021 UFA
Jason Pierre-Paul	Giants	$62,000,000	$15,500,000	$29,000,000	$7,250,000	46.8%	2021 UFA
Calais Campbell	Jaguars	$60,000,000	$15,000,000	$30,000,000	$7,500,000	50.0%	2021 UFA
Everson Griffen	Vikings	$58,000,000	$14,500,000	$18,800,000	$4,700,000	32.4%	2023 UFA
Cameron Jordan	Saints	$55,000,000	$11,000,000	$22,969,000	$4,593,800	41.8%	2021 UFA

 

Player	Team	Total  Value ▾	Avg./Year	Total  Guaranteed	Avg.  Guar./Year	% Guar.	Free  Agency
Eric Berry	Chiefs	$78,000,000	$13,000,000	$29,800,000	$4,966,667	38.2%	2023 UFA
Tyrann Mathieu	Cardinals	$62,500,407	$12,500,081	$21,250,000	$4,250,000	34.0%	2022 UFA
Harrison Smith	Vikings	$51,250,000	$10,250,000	$15,278,000	$3,055,600	29.8%	2022 UFA
Reshad Jones	Dolphins	$48,000,000	$12,000,000	$19,885,000	$4,971,250	41.4%	2022 UFA
Devin McCourty	Patriots	$47,500,000	$9,500,000	$22,000,000	$4,400,000	46.3%	2020 UFA

 

 

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, Carmen Cygni said:

You're going to give up a **** ton of plays down  MOF. I'm going to have my QB eye banging him all day to open up the seams and get my receivers on top of him for the bug play. Of course, that's if I have to bother considering your FS is bad and has trouble recognizing concepts and making the proper coverage calls.

The QB is going to have a hard time throwing down the field lying on his back.  

[Carmen Cygni]

8 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

The QB is going to have a hard time throwing down the field lying on his back.  

Kudos. That's a helluva DT you have there who can sack the passer or stop the run on every snap.

 

*Suh's contract still makes my laugh. It's unconformable laughter being a Dolphin's fan, but I laugh nonetheless.

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, Carmen Cygni said:

Kudos. That's a helluva DT you have there who can sack the passer or stop the run on every snap.

The question is what's the least important position on defense.  Its gotta be one of 11.  Safeties are paid less.  To my knowledge other than Eric Berry (who went 5th) there's never been a safety taken in the top 5 of the draft.  Sacking the QB is the most effective way to stop a QB, etc.  I can make tons of arguments for Safety being the least important.  

[cddolphin]

36 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said:

Listen, Safety is one of the mos important positions on the field. Just for starters, they make all the strength and coverage calls for the back 7, they can provide deuce coverages, and help prevent big plays (12+ run, 16+ pass).

One of the safeties do, at least.

As has been repeated in this thread, the answer is rather scheme-dependent. But I'll go FS. Why?

1) Least likely defender to be involved in stopping the run

2) Generally speaking they have the most specific skillset. I imagine FS are in zone coverage with help underneath far more often than other DBs, and man up on defenders least frequently when compared to a CB or SS.

3) And the most damning piece of evidence: compensation. NFL compensation is almost purely merit-based. If people can point to QBs as being the most important and are generally okay with their gigantic contracts as a result of that designation, couldn't we do the same thing for defenders?

Number of current defenders averaging at least $10m annually:
Interior DL - 20
DE / Edge - 13
CB - 13
"Traditional" LB - 7
S - 6

[MKnight82]

2 minutes ago, cddolphin said:

One of the safeties do, at least.

As has been repeated in this thread, the answer is rather scheme-dependent. But I'll go FS. Why?

1) Least likely defender to be involved in stopping the run

2) Generally speaking they have the most specific skillset. I imagine FS are in zone coverage with help underneath far more often than other DBs, and man up on defenders least frequently when compared to a CB or SS.

3) And the most damning piece of evidence: compensation. NFL compensation is almost purely merit-based. If people can point to QBs as being the most important and are generally okay with their gigantic contracts as a result of that designation, couldn't we do the same thing for defenders?

Number of current defenders averaging at least $10m annually:
Interior DL - 20
DE / Edge - 13
LB - 7
CB - 13
S - 6

Its so obvious I don't know how anyone could argue any position other than Safety.

[gopherwrestler]

2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Its so obvious I don't know how anyone could argue any position other than Safety.

I mean... Harrison Smith is probably the Vikings most important player.....

[cddolphin]

1 minute ago, gopherwrestler said:

I mean... Harrison Smith is probably the Vikings most important player.....

Pointing to one case or exception isn't really a valid counterargument, though, surely you know this? There will always be game-changing standouts at any position.

[gopherwrestler]

Just now, cddolphin said:

Pointing to one case or exception isn't really a valid counterargument, though, surely you know this? There will always be game-changing standouts at any position.

I really don't think so.
I truly don't think there is just "one" position.

 

Really depends on scheme.
Zimmer relies on a good safety.

Pettine with the Packers has always relied on a single high safety.

For the Vikings it is probably the 3rd linebacker. He plays maybe 2 or 3 plays a drive in heavy offensive formations.

I'd think it is safe to say that CB's are the only ones that will never be the "least important"

 

[cddolphin]

5 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

I really don't think so.
I truly don't think there is just "one" position.

 

Really depends on scheme.
Zimmer relies on a good safety.

Pettine with the Packers has always relied on a single high safety.

For the Vikings it is probably the 3rd linebacker. He plays maybe 2 or 3 plays a drive in heavy offensive formations.

Right but when you're talking about the NFL as a whole, general trends trump individual exceptions. If NFL GMs are paying safeties less, and drafting them lower, than any other position on defense over the years, I think that's about as strong an indicator as is possible.

Since you can't specifically account for differences in individual responsibilites across teams and positions, it makes sense to look at the sole common denominator: cash.

[Kiwibrown]

I think FS can be the most valuable position to a team, but generally isn't. 

How many players sine 2000 that have played FS are worth a op 5 pick in the draft. Probably only 1 in Ed Reed. 

usually the excellent coverage guys play corner because it is more important. 

Who would be he best FS in the league is probably someone like Marcus Peters, Patrick Peterson or Lattimore. They aren't because they play a more important position of cornerback. 
It is similair for KR/PR the best in the league would more often be a RB or a WR that is too important to play the position. 

[Tugboat]

2 hours ago, ugLymayNe said:

4-3: the teams worst starting LB

3-4: the teams worst starting DL

Pretty simple, as these are the guys leaving the field in nickel packages

Yeah.  I think the original question more or less leads into this pretty simple answer.  The nickel is becoming more involved and more important...the trade-off is whoever is coming off the field in order to get that nickel on the field more often.  Every position is still important, and you'd rather not have a sub-par player anywhere that you have to hide...but it's probably "easiest" to "hide" someone who is going to be coming off the field more often anyway.

[Uncle Buck]

If I could have a (4-3) defense with 10 great players and one mediocre player, I would probably go with a 3-technique DT as the weak link.  If the guys on either side of him are both elite, it would probably be easiest to make up for his weaknesses.