Hue Vs Sashi! Who Deserved to be fired?

[pscottdai]

1 hour ago, duke2056 said:

Why would you ever come to a forum like this if this is something you would post??  Seems.....just....silly.  

To me, posting a poll about something that has already been done, that we have zero bearing on, which has been discussed at length in other posts is just silly.

I prefer to look at here and now and focus on the way forward forward rather than focus on the past - I have been a Browns fan since '74 and watched probably 98% of every game they have played since that time - If I worried about stuff that has already occurred I would of committed suicide ages ago out of depression.  

[duke2056]

4 minutes ago, pscottdai said:

To me, posting a poll about something that has already been done that we have zero bearing which has been discussed at length in other posts is just silly.

I prefer to look at here and now and focus on the way forward forward rather than focus on the past - I have been a Browns fan since '74 and watched probably 98% of every game they have played since that time - If I worried about stuff that has already occurred I would of committed suicide ages ago out of depression.  

Still...........silly.  FInd a forward thinking thread.  There's a few on here.

Some people simply like to talk/discuss/debate stuff that very recently just happened.  

But if you hate talking about the past so much, why are you commenting on posts from the past?  

Anyway, moving on.  

Hue shoulda been fired in the past, present, or hopefully near future.

[Kiwibrown]

2 hours ago, dawgdish said:

I wonder why he hasn't even gotten an interview yet for another team's GM position

Cos his team didn’t win too many games.

[buno67]

Sashi at least looked competent in some aspects of his job. Hue has looked lost at every aspect of his job.

[Thomas5737]

18 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Cos his team didn’t win too many games.

Yeah if most of his players end up being bad he probably won't get another chance. If they end up being good he will. Time will be his judge.

[Mastercheddaar]

Sashi Brown needed to be the first one fired shortly followed by Hueball. Sashi was the genius that put 3 rookie QBs on this team that led to the 0-16 season then messed up a trade that could have gave us a vet. I am also 100% positive Sashi would have traded away our firsts for more magic beans while other teams vastly improved. Sashi was only good at trading for more picks and saving money. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[duke2056]

4 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

Sashi was only good at trading for more picks and saving money. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

Do you think that would have continued the same way?  I sure dont

[Mastercheddaar]

5 minutes ago, duke2056 said:

Do you think that would have continued the same way?  I sure dont

I do. He had a chance at 2 franchise QBs. Instead he drafted Kessler and Kizer, then brought on Hogan. He didn't resign McCown either. We started the season with rookie QBs that never won a pro game. He also screwed up the AJ trade either on purpose (which means he is a coward and afraid to tell Hue no) or by accident (which means he is an idiot). I don't want someone like that running my front office. Dorsey was an excellent signing, assuming he can fix the glaring hole at QB that has been there since 99.

Back to Sashi: Why would he change up his game this draft? The Wentz trade was a complete and utter disaster. We got a bunch of players that will either ride the bench or be out of football, while Philly has a Franchise leading QB. As for the Watson trade, we got a mediocre safety and a top 5 pick. Ask me what would I rather have right now? The man couldn't evaluate a QB to save his job. 

We were looking down the barrel of 0-16 even before the season started with the team he assembled and Hueball made sure of it. Both of them do not deserve to be a part of this team. Haslam got half of it right. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

38 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah if most of his players end up being bad he probably won't get another chance. If they end up being good he will. Time will be his judge.

What do you mean? The rookies have had 16 full games, how much more time do they need? ?‍♂️ 

 

17 minutes ago, duke2056 said:

Do you think that would have continued the same way?  I sure dont

Neither do I.

[mistakey]

havent we done this 190000 million times

[mistakey]

28 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

Sashi Brown needed to be the first one fired shortly followed by Hueball. Sashi was the genius that put 3 rookie QBs on this team that led to the 0-16 season then messed up a trade that could have gave us a vet. I am also 100% positive Sashi would have traded away our firsts for more magic beans while other teams vastly improved. Sashi was only good at trading for more picks and saving money. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

our firsts for more magic beans

your sarcasm on the latter belittles your genuine appreciation of the former

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

I do. He had a chance at 2 franchise QBs. Instead he drafted Kessler and Kizer, then brought on Hogan. He didn't resign McCown either.

How does Hue get no blame here.  Hue has been quoted as saying he didn’t want either of those guys (Watson and Wentz), why would Sashi draft them when his “qb whisperer” doesn’t like them.  These points have been made multiple times but people refuse to acknowledge Hue was getting the QB’s that HE WANTED.

Quote

 

We started the season with rookie QBs that never won a pro game.

Osweiler could have stayed, Hue elected not to.

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He also screwed up the AJ trade either on purpose (which means he is a coward and afraid to tell Hue no) or by accident (which means he is an idiot). I don't want someone like that running my front office.

Why should he have to tell the coach why is doesn’t want to make a terrible trade? If tanking a terrible trade is a fault, that’s one I can live with.

Quote

 

Dorsey was an excellent signing, assuming he can fix the glaring hole at QB that has been there since 99.

Agreed, he’s well qualified.

 

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Back to Sashi: Why would he change up his game this draft?

You’re either being obtuse or are an idiot.  I’ve seen enough of your posts to know it’s the former.

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The Wentz trade was a complete and utter disaster. We got a bunch of players that will either ride the bench or be out of football, while Philly has a Franchise leading QB.

Bad look, no doubt.  I’d love to see all the people who were willing to risk their job on him being a star in 2016.

Quote

 

As for the Watson trade, we got a mediocre safety and a top 5 pick. Ask me what would I rather have right now? The man couldn't evaluate a QB to save his job. 

Watson was never the guy at 12, Hue wanted Hooker.

The man who couldn’t evaluate a qb is the head coach. 

And the jury is still out on Watson imo.

 

[Mind Character]

31 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The man who couldn’t evaluate a qb is the head coach. 

What about Kyle Shanahan passing on Deshaun Watson for a defensive lineman (Solomon Thomas)...did that mean he "couldn't evaluate QBs."

Does wanting Malik Hooker who he thought was the "next Ed Reed," instead of Deshaun Watson mean he "couldn't evaluate QBs"

Coaches don't like all QBs the same. Their rankings are idiosyncratic

If you think Hue is a terrible coach...fine.

But the belief that Hue or Kyle Shanahan can't evaluate a QB b/c they favor one over the other isn't well-founded.

Did Hue properly evaluate Patrick Mahomes or Mitchell Trubisky?

What about Jared Goff?

You can't say Cody Kessler as he was a 4th round pick and has played up to that to this point.  You can't say RG3 because he was one of the best prospects ever before getting injured and the Browns took a calculated game on a 4.38 40-yd dash QB with rare deep ball accuracy/ability.

It's easy to cherry pick info in hindsight to justify the belief that Hue is incompetent.

It all comes down to Wentz in my mind...that year we properly identified our QB1...when he was pulled from us, the organization and Hue thought it best to go for the money ball acquire assets plan.

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If we believe Watson, Hue and him had a close bond in pre-draft and Hue lobbied for him

From Watson: "Me and Hue, during the draft process, kind of communicated," Watson said. "They were a team that was big on me, brought me in, worked me out, met with me, phone calls throughout the weeks and just kind of building a relationship, building a friendship."

"Hue texted me that morning and just said, 'Be ready, anything can happen,'" Watson said.

Watson said that he and Jackson "text here and there" to check up on each other.

"I respect him and all the things he does," Watson said.

"(The Browns) took the picks they wanted to take, and I belong in this situation and this organization," Watson said. "But the relationship and the friendship (with Jackson) will always continue."

Hue: “No, I think what I saw from Deshaun Watson (Sunday) is what I anticipated he would be," he said. "He is a good football player. They have a good system for him. He is playing good football.,,,You throw three touchdowns, and what is it? (12) touchdowns in three games? He is off to a fast start. I am not surprised by what he is doing.”

You don't have to believe Hue, but taken his and Watson's comments together does that sound like a guy that didn't evaluate him correctly or maybe a guy that may have wanted Malik Hooker more, but also would've rather taken Deshaun Watson instead of trading from 12 to 25 to get a 2018 first round pick.

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On 1/5/2018 at 5:41 PM, Mind Character said:

IV. A Brief History/Overview of QB Decisions:

1. We wanted Jared Goff (that evaluation was correct),

2. We liked Wentz but not enough to not go analytic trade down (That was a big Misevaluation),

3. Out of the available talents in FA (there wasn't any), we took a calculated risk on 1 of the most talented athletes to ever play the position (RG3) who had amazing heights in the NFL and some injury and coaching clash issues.

4. We selected a hard working, pinpoint accurate, marginal arm strength player in what amounts to the FOURTH (4th) round of the draft (i.e., a compensatory 3rd round pick) w/ no intention to play him. When bashed by media and the league...Hue says trust me.

5. We tried to trade up for Trubiskty (Correct Evaluation data pending), We like and wanted Mahomes (Correct evaluation data pending), We liked but like everyone else except for the Texans passed on Watson (as did the Bears, 49ers, Jets, Jaguars, Chargers, Bengals, Chiefs)- That also so far looks to be a Misevaluation.

6. We selected a 2nd round QB with rare ability and some critical issues

A lot of the things being used as evidence to confirm previously held beliefs actually weren't terrible decisions given the context in which they happened (Cody in the 4th round...RG3 once Goff was outta reach...)

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[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Jesus man, learn to be more succinct.

I don’t think Hue can’t evaluate QB’s, more point was more to the fact that Hue seemingly wanted a safety as opposed to Watson, so our choices at 12 weren’t Watson or 25 and a 1st, but rather Hooker or 25 and a first.  Why would Sashi draft a qb his coach isn’t pushing for?

Hue was brought here to evaluate qb’s and find and develop his guy, which, thus far he’s failed to do. I’m not sure how all the “failures”, are Sashi’s fault when that was Hue’s stated job from the beginning.

[Mind Character]

12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

more point was more to the fact that Hue seemingly wanted a safety as opposed to Watson, so our choices at 12 weren’t Watson or 25 and a 1st, but rather Hooker or 25 and a first.  Why would Sashi draft a qb his coach isn’t pushing for?

Fair point.

I just think Hue wanted (in order of desire).... 1) Malik Hooker  (who he thought was Ed Reed and was on pace for a 9 INT rookie year before injury) at 12, and 2) Deshaun Watson at 12.

Hue didn't want to trade down. That was a FO strategy whereby they believed if everyone was not all in on Deshaun Watson like they were seemingly with Patrick Mahomes and Mitchell Trubisky (we tried to trade up), then as Sashi said "we just thought trading down was the better gamble."

 

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’m not sure how all the “failures”, are Sashi’s fault when that was Hue’s stated job from the beginning.

The failures are definitely not all Sashi's fault and anyone that thinks that has no idea what they're talking about.

It's a fair point to say that "to this point, Hue has not successfully develop his guy."

I agree with your point there. The thing is it's such a small sample size and we have yet to sign a top tier QB via free agency or even select a QB prospect in the top-40.

It's not a Sashi or Hue thing..,pick 1....it's Sashi made this and that mistake and Hue made this and that mistake.

Hue only having eyes for Goff and not being as all in on Wentz as he was with Goff was HIS mistake/misevaluation. The FO always wanted to get the moneyball trade down plan going and he could've halted that by being as all in for Wentz as he was for Goff. He wasn't.

It's somewhat debatable regarding whether the bigger mistake was not going up to number 1 from 2 to get one's guy.

Winning now and developing a rookie 2nd or 4th round pick aren't really synonymous (Remember Derek Carr went 0-10 or 0-11).

Coming off a 1-15 season where we were force to start an end of 3rd round QB, Hue was pressed and desperate for wins. That desperation did not meld well with Deshone Kizer's maddening INTs and the decision to not pull him after consecutive weeks of critical redzone turnovers.