Old Guy Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 16 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said: Sure, but separating the guy you mentioned and the last good WR taken before him we have: Tyler Boyd, Braxton Miller, Leonte Carroo, Chris Moore, Malcolm Mitchell, Louis Brown, Pharoh Cooper, Demarcus Robinson, Tajae Sharpe, Jordan Peyton, and Trevor Davis went between Michael Thomas and Tyreek Hill. Chris Conley, Sammie Coates, Ty Montgomery, Jamison Crowder, Justin Hardy, Vince Mayle, DeAndre Smelter, and Rashad Greene went between Tyler Lockett and Stefon Diggs. Kadarius Toney, Rashod Bateman, Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, D'Wayne Eskridge, Tutu Atwell, Terrace Marshall, Josh Palmer, Dyami Brown, Amari Rodgers, Nico Collins, Anthony Schwartz, and Dez Fitzpatrick went between DeVonta Smith and Amon Ra St. Brown. Taywan Talor, Ardarius Stewart, and Carlos Henderson went between Cooper Cupp and Chris Godwin. Marquise Brown and N'Keal Harry were both taken before A.J. Brown while Mecole Hardman, JJ Arcega-Whiteside, Parris Campbell, and Andy Isabella went between A.J. Brown and DK Metcalf/Diontae Johnson. Like I'm sure people #onhere will say "I had a good feeling about DK Metcalf, but I'm sure there were actual NFL scouting personnel who had a good feeling on Justin Hardy or JJ Arcega-Whiteside. Sums up why the draft is a crapshoot and it's even tougher when you don't have really good personnel people. Clearly, GB has been better than most teams when it comes to talent acquisition. For 30 years, we've been a threat to make the playoffs and possible Super Bowl candidates as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, St Vince said: Does anyone know what are cap situation will look like in 2024? We will have 11 picks and Love on a cheap deal. Cutting Bak will save an extra 21M. The 2024 FA class looks better than this year's. Another strong draft class with hopefully 40M to spend in FA should put us right back in SB contention. If we cut Bak we'll have 45 to play with. That doesn't account for a Gary extension or Savage if he somehow plays lights out this year. I don't see us being big players in free agency next year either. We have likely 2 FRP's in the draft and a lot of developing young talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 17 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said: One of the things about offensive skill positions is that while there's a huge difference between the top tier guys at a position and the next tier, there second tier is always fairly flat. Like there's a huge difference between "a top 10 WR" and "the 25th best WR" but there's not a huge difference between "the 25th best WR" and "the 60th best WR". So when you look at a guy in the draft and you have him graded out around where you have Leonte Caroo and Kevin Norwood, it's not actually necessary to throw a premium pick at that guy just to say you're devoting resources to the position. At some point, you're just hoping that the guy is going to be a lot better than you had him projected (which happen sometimes!) For WR specifically, I think there is often little difference between a WR taken at pick #25 vs pick #55, and even the dropoff at #75 is often not huge. TT's success with consistently targeting WR's in RD2 speaks for itself, and like many GB fans, I've been frustrated by the team seeming to abandon that strategy after the Adams pick. Selecting Josh Jones over Godwin in 2017 was one of the biggest 🤬 reactions I've ever had to a pick. Looking back on that draft, JuJu and Kupp were also available, but neither was on my "take that guy" list at the time. Taking Sternberger over McLaurin in 2019 has been beat to death. That pick didn't annoy me too much when it was made, but other fans certainly were. I honestly don't think I've ever been frustrated by GB passing on a WR in RD1. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 44 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: For WR specifically, I think there is often little difference between a WR taken at pick #25 vs pick #55, and even the dropoff at #75 is often not huge. TT's success with consistently targeting WR's in RD2 speaks for itself, and like many GB fans, I've been frustrated by the team seeming to abandon that strategy after the Adams pick. Selecting Josh Jones over Godwin in 2017 was one of the biggest 🤬 reactions I've ever had to a pick. Looking back on that draft, JuJu and Kupp were also available, but neither was on my "take that guy" list at the time. Taking Sternberger over McLaurin in 2019 has been beat to death. That pick didn't annoy me too much when it was made, but other fans certainly were. I honestly don't think I've ever been frustrated by GB passing on a WR in RD1. It has happened once for me. When we took Vonnie Holliday instead of Randy Moss. It was obvious Moss was a generational talent at WR. Holliday had a nice career, but he was what they thought he was when they drafted him. I good run stuffing D-lineman with little to no ability to push the pocket and create sacks or pressures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 1 hour ago, St Vince said: Does anyone know what are cap situation will look like in 2024? We will have 11 picks and Love on a cheap deal. Cutting Bak will save an extra 21M. The 2024 FA class looks better than this year's. Another strong draft class with hopefully 40M to spend in FA should put us right back in SB contention. Currently Spotrac has us with 7 million in cap space and sitting at about 240 million. OTC has us with about 23.7 in space. Small, but not insignificant, decrease in cap space also adds when Musgrave and Reed sign. I don't think we are going to be flush with cap space until Bakhtiari's contract is gone. But by that point, Gary will have some new money, and if Jordan Love is good, he probably will as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: It has happened once for me. When we took Vonnie Holliday instead of Randy Moss. It was obvious Moss was a generational talent at WR. Holliday had a nice career, but he was what they thought he was when they drafted him. I good run stuffing D-lineman with little to no ability to push the pocket and create sacks or pressures. While Holiday was certainly the wrong choice, I remember Moss being discussed as a talented but very high risk player at the time. Wolf wasn't especially averse to risk taking, so I'll have to assume he didn't view Moss as a generational talent. Trying to remember my reaction to the Holiday pick, I think I was probably more annoyed with the trade up than the player (GB gave RD1-29 and RD2-60 for RD1-19) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zycho32 Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 4 hours ago, Old Guy said: It has happened once for me. When we took Vonnie Holliday instead of Randy Moss. It was obvious Moss was a generational talent at WR. Holliday had a nice career, but he was what they thought he was when they drafted him. I good run stuffing D-lineman with little to no ability to push the pocket and create sacks or pressures. I think that's a general problem with teams that make the summit and try to get back to it, like the position GB was in during '98. They turned reactive instead of proactive, trying desperately to bolster and improve a D-Line that got its @$$ whupped hard by Denver in XXXII, and thus when Moss got done torching them in '98, they would again play reactive and draft three DBs to counter him, to no avail. Soon enough the Ron Wolf era became the Mike Sherman era and that's all she wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Zycho32 said: I think that's a general problem with teams that make the summit and try to get back to it, like the position GB was in during '98. They turned reactive instead of proactive, trying desperately to bolster and improve a D-Line that got its @$$ whupped hard by Denver in XXXII, and thus when Moss got done torching them in '98, they would again play reactive and draft three DBs to counter him, to no avail. Soon enough the Ron Wolf era became the Mike Sherman era and that's all she wrote. That 3 DB draft was stupid. BUT one of them was Mike McKenzie, who played a few really good years for us. Also, Fred Vinson turned into Ahman Green, who also had a few really good years. But a lot of this can be mitigated by just selecting Moss in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 On 6/9/2023 at 3:28 PM, turf toe said: you call them premium positional picks, I call them harder to come by positional players, there simply are less quality big boys to pick from at positions of team need like OL and DL, you have to have those players, your right, but the skill position players are who win the games, there simply are just more to chose from and why good ones are still available in round two. We disagree. Greatly. And that is fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat&Beer Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero Three-time Pro Bowl DE Danielle Hunter plans to skip the #Vikings’ mandatory minicamp, per sources. The sides haven’t seen eye-to-eye on a new contract. @RapSheet reported Minnesota has received trade calls, and now one of the NFL’s top pass rushers is officially a holdout. 10:51 AM · Jun 12, 2023 from El Segundo, CA · 1.2M Views Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 What the heck are the Vikings doing? This should have been a slam-dunk division title for them. They look like they are trying to make this a competitive division race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 4 hours ago, Brat&Beer said: Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero Three-time Pro Bowl DE Danielle Hunter plans to skip the #Vikings’ mandatory minicamp, per sources. The sides haven’t seen eye-to-eye on a new contract. @RapSheet reported Minnesota has received trade calls, and now one of the NFL’s top pass rushers is officially a holdout. 10:51 AM · Jun 12, 2023 from El Segundo, CA · 1.2M Views I thought I read that they pushed some of his 2023 salary into 2022 and paid him early last year. I could be mistaken about that but how fricking stupid. He's "only" making 4.9 million this year. No way he's playing for that amount. He probably wants elite EDGE money too and with his injury history, I don't see how you can pay him close to 20 a year. The 20 a year is an assumption of what he'd be asking for. 2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: What the heck are the Vikings doing? This should have been a slam-dunk division title for them. They look like they are trying to make this a competitive division race. They aren't the favorite to win the division. No way, the Lions are the favorites. Vikings lost a lot of key guys this off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 3 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: What the heck are the Vikings doing? This should have been a slam-dunk division title for them. They look like they are trying to make this a competitive division race. The Vikings had a worst cap outlook than even the Packers looking at 2024, and basically had to show every high priced veteran the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 11 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said: The Vikings had a worst cap outlook than even the Packers looking at 2024, and basically had to show every high priced veteran the door. Just expanding on this, not disagreeing at all. Who are the young talented guys on that roster? Premiums....QB, WR, LT, EDGE, corner, pass rush DL. Cousins isn't young and he's also good, but not that good. Jefferson is a stud and will be paid mega bucks soon. Maybe Addison has potential, but we shall see. I thought they got Darrisaw for LT. Seems like he has a lot of potential. EDGE doesn't look very good after Hunter. And he's a short termer there. Not sure they have much at corner, either. Future isn't so great. They need premiums. Odds are more vets are gone next year so they can afford Jefferson and then they still have to figure out the QB situation. Wondering how Rodgers is going to look in purple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdpackfan22 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Just expanding on this, not disagreeing at all. Who are the young talented guys on that roster? Premiums....QB, WR, LT, EDGE, corner, pass rush DL. Cousins isn't young and he's also good, but not that good. Jefferson is a stud and will be paid mega bucks soon. Maybe Addison has potential, but we shall see. I thought they got Darrisaw for LT. Seems like he has a lot of potential. EDGE doesn't look very good after Hunter. And he's a short termer there. Not sure they have much at corner, either. Future isn't so great. They need premiums. Odds are more vets are gone next year so they can afford Jefferson and then they still have to figure out the QB situation. Wondering how Rodgers is going to look in purple? If they were smart, they'd trade JJ and go full rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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