LETSGOBROWNIES Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: It's ironic. At least from my standpoint and my feelings about it all, it seems that Hue Jackson might be the only man that can save me from misery. Reading McCloughan's quotes is like a punch to the gut. I’d rather hate the pick and have McCloughan be right than the opposite though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I’d rather hate the pick and have McCloughan be right than the opposite though. Agreed. The problem for me is I believe that I'd hate the pick and McCloughan would be wrong. Reading the quotes, it seems like another dose of fire-in-the-belly "winner" and "real football player" talk that we get about a guy every year. Usually it's a cult of personality player. It would be nice to hear a breakdown from those in charge about the technical qualities that a QB has, rather than the generic "he's a gamer" stuff. Hopefully the more sophisticated analysis is going on behind closed doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said: It's ironic. At least from my standpoint and my feelings about it all, it seems that Hue Jackson might be the only man that can save me from misery. Reading McCloughan's quotes is like a punch to the gut. I am with you. Been thinking that for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said: Agreed. The problem for me is I believe that I'd hate the pick and McCloughan would be wrong. Reading the quotes, it seems like another dose of fire-in-the-belly "winner" and "real football player" talk that we get about a guy every year. Usually it's a cult of personality player. It would be nice to hear a breakdown from those in charge about the technical qualities that a QB has, rather than the generic "he's a gamer" stuff. Hopefully the more sophisticated analysis is going on behind closed doors. How about the fact that he’s accurate as can be, has great anticipation and a near photographic memory that allows him to ingest playbooks super fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said: Agreed. The problem for me is I believe that I'd hate the pick and McCloughan would be wrong. Reading the quotes, it seems like another dose of fire-in-the-belly "winner" and "real football player" talk that we get about a guy every year. Usually it's a cult of personality player. I do not want fire-in-the-belly. I also do not want a "gunslinger". And I do not want someone with a chip on his shoulder. I want a large, mobile, durable and accurate QB who can make "wow" plays and conduct himself professionally, on and off the field. 6 minutes ago, mistakey said: How about the fact that he’s accurate as can be, has great anticipation and a near photographic memory that allows him to ingest playbooks super fast? Doesn't sway me. Doesn't let me check enough of my boxes. As for the photographic memory, that will come in handy if we keep running an O coaching carousel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, bruceb said: I also do not want a "gunslinger". Might need your definition of this. Darnold passed a lot more than Mayfield, had 7 more turnovers last year than Mayfield had in his 3 years as the Oklahoma starter and doesn't progress through his reads as often as Mayfield and makes throws to receivers who aren't open much more often than Mayfield (as you'd expect with his interceptions) and completes a lower percentage of passes. You are right that he has fire in the belly. I don't know if he has a chip on his shoulder or just fights back but I'll give it to you. If you want a tall guy who doesn't have the baggage that is fine. Mayfield is accurate and (too?) careful with the football, that isn't a gunslinger in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said: Might need your definition of this. Darnold passed a lot more than Mayfield, had 7 more turnovers last year than Mayfield had in his 3 years as the Oklahoma starter and doesn't progress through his reads as often as Mayfield and makes throws to receivers who aren't open much more often than Mayfield (as you'd expect with his interceptions) and completes a lower percentage of passes. You are right that he has fire in the belly. I don't know if he has a chip on his shoulder or just fights back but I'll give it to you. If you want a tall guy who doesn't have the baggage that is fine. Mayfield is accurate and (too?) careful with the football, that isn't a gunslinger in my book. I recoil every time I hear the description "gunslinger" used for any QB as if its a good thing. I am pretty sure that I have read the term gunslinger used in connection with Mayfield. And there is the "little Farve" thing out there, too. I think Mayfield was a great college QB. Not confident he will be great in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 34 minutes ago, mistakey said: How about the fact that he’s accurate as can be, has great anticipation and a near photographic memory that allows him to ingest playbooks super fast? Accurate throwing to wide open dudes. I don't know yet that he can be as accurate throwing to closely covered receivers and throwing them open, like you need to in the NFL. I've seen those throws from Darnold much more. What I want to know is why, in the College Football Playoff when a team with an actual defense put the clamps on their gadget offense, did Mayfield struggle to complete passes in the second half and continually try to bail and run at first opportunity? That's the sort of defense he will see in the NFL, not the Big 12 glorified scrimmages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Might need your definition of this. Darnold passed a lot more than Mayfield, had 7 more turnovers last year than Mayfield had in his 3 years as the Oklahoma starter and doesn't progress through his reads as often as Mayfield and makes throws to receivers who aren't open much more often than Mayfield (as you'd expect with his interceptions) and completes a lower percentage of passes. Not sure where you got the turnover stat from. Mayfield had 21 picks in 3 years. Darnold had 13 last year. If we add the fumbles for Darnold, technically it's 24 turnovers. If we add the fumble stats for Mayfield over the 3 years at Oklahoma that you stated, it's 34 turnovers. Regardless of the above, there needs to be context for the turnovers. I know for a fact that Darnold gets attributed fumbles that have been on Ronald Jones either botching handoffs, mesh point exchanges or dropping backwards swing passes. Fumbles are going to happen for various reasons. Lamar Jackson had 9 this year. Josh Rosen had 8 but for some reason it hasn't slipped into his narrative the same way it has for Darnold. Mayfield had 9 in his 8 games for Texas Tech. Darnold had an issue this year with INTs, particularly early on, but is it not relevant that he was playing behind a garbage o-line whilst Mayfield had an elite one? Much the same way that I don't see a lot of relevance in Mayfield having a higher completion percentage than Darnold. Given the schemes and the talent, I'd expect that to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 http://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-sam-darnold-usc/ This is a very good write up and accompanying clips on Darnold. Disproves some of the myths about him (reading defenses and nuances of QBing e.g. looking off the safety) whilst highlighting those that have solid basis (bad mechanics, room for improvement, inexperience). Enjoyed going through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 32 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: Not sure where you got the turnover stat from. Mayfield had 21 picks in 3 years. Darnold had 13 last year. If we add the fumbles for Darnold, technically it's 24 turnovers. If we add the fumble stats for Mayfield over the 3 years at Oklahoma that you stated, it's 34 turnovers. Regardless of the above, there needs to be context for the turnovers. I know for a fact that Darnold gets attributed fumbles that have been on Ronald Jones either botching handoffs, mesh point exchanges or dropping backwards swing passes. Fumbles are going to happen for various reasons. Lamar Jackson had 9 this year. Josh Rosen had 8 but for some reason it hasn't slipped into his narrative the same way it has for Darnold. Mayfield had 9 in his 8 games for Texas Tech. I was wrong about Baker's interceptions, the site I used as a reference was wrong. Whatever site you are using for fumbles lost is wrong, Baker had 3 in his 3 years at OU so his total turnovers in 3 years is the same as Darnold's last year, 24 to 24. I think you are counting fumbles not fumbles lost for Baker, he fumbled 9 times at Tech but only lost 2. Darnold has 13 fumbles this year, lost 10. Or twice as many as Mayfield in his 4 years including when he was an 18 year old true freshman walk on at Tech. Darnold never played as a true freshman let alone as a walk on so he should have been more advanced. Mayfield got a lot better each year though which can only be said for one of them. I don't even know who I would select #1 but I will argue against things that just aren't true which happens a lot when someone is hitched to their prospect. Mayfield is good at progressing, he is accurate, he is smart and he takes care of the football, which means he throws to an open receiver or he freelances until someone gets open if it happens. You can say he is short, questionable character issues but using the fact that his 1st, 2nd or 3rd read is open and that is why he has a high completion percentage isn't a negative but a huge positive. If he was accurate on intermediate and deep throws and only took the easy shots, again, you may have a point but that isn't Mayfield. All I ask if that we don't defend a terrible INT by a QB claiming his receiver wasn't open (duh) or that his line made him do it and then damn another QB because there wasn't an open receiver and his protection broke down so he bailed. I'll take a 2 yard gain over a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: http://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-sam-darnold-usc/ This is a very good write up and accompanying clips on Darnold. Disproves some of the myths about him (reading defenses and nuances of QBing e.g. looking off the safety) whilst highlighting those that have solid basis (bad mechanics, room for improvement, inexperience). Enjoyed going through this. Very good. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 We need a QB, one who God willing will be our QB for the next 10+ years. Mayfield would be a controversial pick at 1 for all the reasons mentioned by @Aztec Hammer and more. Very few mocks have us taking him because there are better options. We don't need controversy. We need a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Random thought: Of the top 5 QBs, seems to me that Darnold and Allen are the only two designed for the AFC North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, bruceb said: Random thought: Of the top 5 QBs, seems to me that Darnold and Allen are the only two designed for the AFC North. Come on, Bruce. This is one of those cliches like "gunslinger". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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