HTTRDynasty Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: "Top 10 deep threat" is a pointless distinction without knowing whom they are. Even then, odds are that half of them are "elite" WRs in your mind. So that essentially leaves me with only a handful of players. You keep shrinking the pool of players to make yourself seem correct. I mostly agree with the list I linked to from PFF, which showed the WR's with the best WR rating on targets 20+ yards. Those are the guys I think of when I think "deep threat". Other guys, like AB, Hopkins, and AJ Green, I just think of as great all-around WRs (which includes being a great deep threat, irrespective of speed). 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Maybe it had more to do with Doctson's inability to stay healthy and consistently play up to potential thus far in his career than his ability to get vertical? Doctson played in all 16 games last year... He has been inconsistent, but I think he's still already a better deep threat than anyone on the Rams' roster. He's just not the kind of guy a CB has to give a big cushion to at the LOS, with a safety shading to his side, due to the fear of getting beat deep. Those guys in the PFF link are the type of players where that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 minute ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: I mostly agree with the list I linked to from PFF, which showed the WR's with the best WR rating on targets 20+ yards. Those are the guys I think of when I think "deep threat". Other guys, like AB, Hopkins, and AJ Green, I just think of as great all-around WRs (which includes being a great deep threat, irrespective of speed). Doctson played in all 16 games last year... He has been inconsistent, but I think he's still already a better deep threat than anyone on the Rams' roster. He's just not the kind of guy a CB has to give a big cushion to at the LOS, with a safety shading to his side, due to the fear of getting beat deep. Those guys in the PFF link are the type of players where that's the case. Sammy certainly wasn't that type of guy, then. As for your link, as I stated before, the player Reynolds was most often compared to as a prospect was Marvin Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Sammy certainly wasn't that type of guy, then. As for your link, as I stated before, the player Reynolds was most often compared to as a prospect was Marvin Jones. DC's didn't fear Sammy's 4.43 speed enough to give him cushion at the LOS? That's news to me. And the Marvin Jones comp is cool... but it's like people comparing Rankins or Hurst to Aaron Donald... just b/c people are using the comp, doesn't mean they have the same god-given gifts. For example, Jones is a 4.4 guy and Reynolds is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: DC's didn't fear Sammy's 4.43 speed enough to give him cushion at the LOS? That's news to me. Sammy got pressed at the LOS often last year. I'm happy to provide evidence: https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/26/nfl-los-angeles-rams-sammy-watkins-stats-film-press/ So what’s happened to the former top-five pick? It’s a combination of things, but teams have devised a way to slow him down. According to Next Gen Stats, Watkins only has an average cushion of 4.3 yards at the line of scrimmage. That’s the fourth-lowest total among all players in the NFL with just Marvin Jones, DeVante Parker and Mohamed Sanu seeing smaller cushions at the line of scrimmage. Quote And the Marvin Jones comp is cool... but it's like people comparing Rankins or Hurst to Aaron Donald... just b/c people are using the comp, doesn't mean they have the same god-given gifts. For example, Jones is a 4.4 guy and Reynolds is not. Marvin Jones ran a 4.46 40. Josh Reynolds ran a 4.52 40. As I stated earlier, almost the entire difference between the two came in the first 10 yards (0.05s). Yea, that's a realllllllllllllllly big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Sammy got pressed at the LOS often last year. I'm happy to provide evidence: https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/26/nfl-los-angeles-rams-sammy-watkins-stats-film-press/ So what’s happened to the former top-five pick? It’s a combination of things, but teams have devised a way to slow him down. According to Next Gen Stats, Watkins only has an average cushion of 4.3 yards at the line of scrimmage. That’s the fourth-lowest total among all players in the NFL with just Marvin Jones, DeVante Parker and Mohamed Sanu seeing smaller cushions at the line of scrimmage. Marvin Jones ran a 4.46 40. Josh Reynolds ran a 4.52 40. As I stated earlier, almost the entire difference between the two came in the first 10 yards (0.05s). Yea, that's a realllllllllllllllly big difference. So did they press him with a safety shaded over a top? I actually just looked back at my original quote you bolded and saw that I missed a word. I meant to say "He's just not the kind of guy a CB has to give a big cushion to at the LOS, or with a safety shading to his side, due to the fear of getting beat deep." I forgot to write down the "or". It wouldn't make much sense for a CB to be sagging way off AND have a safety shaded over to his side . And yes, in this league, that 0.05s can make all the difference. Especially when you're going up against a CB within that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 46 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: And yes, in this league, that 0.05s can make all the difference. Especially when you're going up against a CB within that range. No, it doesn't. I've more than demonstrated why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Just now, jrry32 said: No, it doesn't. I've more than demonstrated why. Ok. Bottom line, do you think you will still have a top 5 offense this year without Watkins? And as it relates to the thread, do you think Goff will put up another top 5 passer rating this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 minute ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: Ok. Bottom line, do you think you will still have a top 5 offense this year without Watkins? And as it relates to the thread, do you think Goff will put up another top 5 passer rating this season? I'll let you know after the Draft. As it stands now, yes, I expect us to have a top 5 scoring offense this year. Goff being top 5 in passer rating is a much more difficult question. QBs are pretty inconsistent before they hit their prime around 27-28 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: I'll let you know after the Draft. As it stands now, yes, I expect us to have a top 5 scoring offense this year. Goff being top 5 in passer rating is a much more difficult question. QBs are pretty inconsistent before they hit their prime around 27-28 years old. Ok, I’m eager to see if that’s the case. As an LA resident, I already watch the Rams more than any other team besides the Redskins but I’ll probably be keeping an even closer eye on them this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49er pride Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 On 2/3/2018 at 3:51 AM, Bobby816 said: He just had a great 2nd year. There’s no reason to think he won’t have an incredible career. I assume the only reason you question him was bc of 2016. But he showed this season that he’s learned from those 1st handful of games as a rookie. There’s countless QBs that struggled as rookies that went on to have HOF careers. Ever heard of Josh Freeman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, 49er pride said: Ever heard of Josh Freeman? You’re reaching dude. Goff >>>>>> Jimmy G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49er pride Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: You’re reaching dude. Goff >>>>>> Jimmy G LOL are you kidding me? I'm not even bringing up Jimmy G. It's crazy to say a qb is proven after 1 good year. Proven is a very strong word. Would you have said Freeman was proven after 1 bad year and then come back and have the second year he had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, 49er pride said: LOL are you kidding me? I'm not even bringing up Jimmy G. It's crazy to say a qb is proven after 1 good year. Proven is a very strong word. Would you have said Freeman was proven after 1 bad year and then come back and have the second year he had? There’s a difference between a guy who was the #1 pick that everyone knew one day would be a franchise QB looking good and a guy that was a huge risk being good for a couple seasons then falling off. It’s be like comparing Rosen’s career to Jackson’s in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49er pride Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: There’s a difference between a guy who was the #1 pick that everyone knew one day would be a franchise QB looking good and a guy that was a huge risk being good for a couple seasons then falling off. It’s be like comparing Rosen’s career to Jackson’s in this draft. Freeman was a first round pick who got better every year in college. I'm sure there was a lot of people who didn't think he would regress the way he did. I'm not saying Goff is going to regress but it's ridiculous to say a qb is proven after 1 year. Draft position should not matter as much as youre making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 24 minutes ago, 49er pride said: Freeman was a first round pick who got better every year in college. I'm sure there was a lot of people who didn't think he would regress the way he did. I'm not saying Goff is going to regress but it's ridiculous to say a qb is proven after 1 year. Draft position should not matter as much as youre making it out to be. Draft position doesn’t always mean everything. But it does show the likelihood of what people thought of the career path of that individual. There’s a reason Goff went #1 and there was a reason he was good last year. And that’s bc he’s good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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