This Is Rival Talk v1.0

[Leader]

6 minutes ago, HokieHigh said:

People on this board have no idea what Ja's negotiating priorities are. 

I've not been following this line of discussion too closely...and I might have found a better way of saying this....but I agree with the premise. 

I'm confident GB wants Alexander to sign an extension...but he's gotta want to return GB and I doubt he's going to be lacking for offers.

[HokieHigh]

33 minutes ago, Leader said:

I've not been following this line of discussion too closely...and I might have found a better way of saying this....but I agree with the premise. 

I'm confident GB wants Alexander to sign an extension...but he's gotta want to return GB and I doubt he's going to be lacking for offers.

The alternative is to franchise tag a guy who doesn't want to be here. This may appear viable short term, but it is bad for the locker room and it sets a bad precedent for young stars. Thus, in this situation the franchise tag is not the starting point for negotiations. 

 

Jalen Ramsey LAR deal is. A big market team will make him that kind of offer and some. 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by HokieHigh

[Old Guy]

42 minutes ago, HokieHigh said:

I never said I wanted to let Ja walk. I said we might be in the position to let him walk. People on this board have no idea what Ja's negotiating priorities are. 

Which is it? We might be in a position to let him walk or we don't know what his negotiating positions are? Those are two different points of view. 

[HokieHigh]

4 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Which is it? We might be in a position to let him walk or we don't know what his negotiating positions are? Those are two different points of view. 

 

We (the packers) might be in a position to let him walk, but we (forum posters) don't know what his negotiating positions are. 

[Old Guy]

Just now, HokieHigh said:

 

We (the packers) might be in a position to let him walk, but we (forum posters) don't know what his negotiating positions are. 

Wrong thread and I don't want to hijack it, but we are not in a position to allow a top 5 guy at his position walk. Probably top 3 tbh. His negotiating position is simple. maximize his earnings while he's in his prime. Same as every other person coming off a rookie contract and playing at an elite level. 

 

[vegas492]

50 minutes ago, HokieHigh said:

I never said I wanted to let Ja walk. I said we might be in the position to let him walk. People on this board have no idea what Ja's negotiating priorities are. 

Nor do you.

Just sayin', there is a lot of mental gymnastics on this board concerning a thousand "what if" scenarios around Rodgers and JA.

Just enjoy the team you have now.  It is going to look different next year.  The year after will be different....etc.

I'll maintain this concerning those two players.

1) You win more games with Rodgers than you do with any other QB we could have next year.  Regardless of the team around both guys.

2) JA is young, he was injured in college, he is injured now.  I think (key word, think, not KNOW) that he will want guaranteed money.  Due to his age and the age of our other stars, you can structure a long term deal with him that pays him what he wants and spreads it out so that he gets paid more as other higher paid guys will fall off of the cap.  I'm saying nothing about contract size, nothing about the CB market, I'm simply saying that I think (key word again), that he will want guaranteed money and due to his age, we can do that and spread it out over time so that it does not cripple us.

[vegas492]

I'll add this...when is the last time we let a very good rookie walk after his rookie deal was done?

Or, when was the last time we let a rookie walk at the end of his first deal who was a top 5 player at his position?

My mind immediately goes to Hayward and Hyde.  But neither were top guys at their positions when they left, so that wipes out those two.

Maybe it was Blake Martinez, depending on how you viewed him?  

It wasn't Aaron Jones.  Not 'Vante.  Not Bakh.  Not Sitton, not Lang, not Linsley.

Corey Williams?  He was good for us, but no where near top of his position good.

Maybe it is Greg Jennings?  (Nope, seems like he got a second deal from the Packers.)

Am I missing someone, or does this go back to Bryce Paup???  

[HokieHigh]

1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

Nor do you.

Just sayin', there is a lot of mental gymnastics on this board concerning a thousand "what if" scenarios around Rodgers and JA.

Just enjoy the team you have now.  It is going to look different next year.  The year after will be different....etc.

I'll maintain this concerning those two players.

1) You win more games with Rodgers than you do with any other QB we could have next year.  Regardless of the team around both guys.

2) JA is young, he was injured in college, he is injured now.  I think (key word, think, not KNOW) that he will want guaranteed money.  Due to his age and the age of our other stars, you can structure a long term deal with him that pays him what he wants and spreads it out so that he gets paid more as other higher paid guys will fall off of the cap.  I'm saying nothing about contract size, nothing about the CB market, I'm simply saying that I think (key word again), that he will want guaranteed money and due to his age, we can do that and spread it out over time so that it does not cripple us.

I enjoy considering the possibilities rather than zeroing in on uncertainties as realities. We don't know what happens with Douglas, but to if you can keep him for a decent deal, Ja is all the more expendable. I love watching Ja play and love the idea of him playing in year 5 knowing he is about to his free agency or a tag/trade situation. It is a very exciting thing to think Stokes may be what Sam Shields was.

 

On #1, I think a potential re-sign of Rodgers/Adams mixes this roster up in unforeseeable ways. It could be Rodgers/Adams/Campbell/Douglas and Ja gets shipped or plays and walks.

Yes I agree on #2. At least 50 of the 100 million will be guaranteed. 

 

3 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Wrong thread and I don't want to hijack it, but we are not in a position to allow a top 5 guy at his position walk. Probably top 3 tbh. His negotiating position is simple. maximize his earnings while he's in his prime. Same as every other person coming off a rookie contract and playing at an elite level. 

 

Yes, you brought it up, no?

[vegas492]

@HokieHigh

You bring up Campbell and Douglas.

I don't feel like we can bring those two back.  I dig them, no doubt, but with their play this year, they are going to be too expensive.  Is that what you think/feel as well?

And when you look at their careers, this season is the outlier for their play.

It would be wise to take the comp picks when they come for those two and call them both great front office moves by GB.

Or...best case scenario....they go into free agency and don't see the deals they want, so they come back at a lower number.  And that scenario is certainly a very, very long shot to happen.

[HokieHigh]

15 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

@HokieHigh

You bring up Campbell and Douglas.

I don't feel like we can bring those two back.  I dig them, no doubt, but with their play this year, they are going to be too expensive.  Is that what you think/feel as well?

And when you look at their careers, this season is the outlier for their play.

It would be wise to take the comp picks when they come for those two and call them both great front office moves by GB.

Or...best case scenario....they go into free agency and don't see the deals they want, so they come back at a lower number.  And that scenario is certainly a very, very long shot to happen.

Yea I like all these guys so much I don't really care how it shakes out. I can cheer for any combination of them. I think it is more likely we re-sign Ja than Campbell/Douglas, but I really don't know how we could afford Kenny/Bahk/Adams/Rodgers/Ja on top deals. Something has got to give!

[vegas492]

5 minutes ago, HokieHigh said:

Yea I like all these guys so much I don't really care how it shakes out. I can cheer for any combination of them. I think it is more likely we re-sign Ja than Campbell/Douglas, but I really don't know how we could afford Kenny/Bahk/Adams/Rodgers/Ja on top deals. Something has got to give!

That's where we differ, just a little bit.

 (I dig them all too.)

I think the structuring of those deals is what could bring them all together.

So...in going with your logic, logic being that JA "could" be gone....

I'll try to rank who I feel is most important to least important, as we see them right now.

Rodgers.  Kenny.  Adams.  JA.  Bakh.  And...pretty sure #12 would be furious if we let #69 get out of the building.

Rodgers makes us win.  He's the top priority.  Kenny, to me, is the MVP of the defense.  He's a game wrecker.  Adams is the best WR in the league.  But...we've won without him, many times.  JA is a top CB in the league, and we've won without him this year.  Bakh is a top LT in the league, and we may have two replacements for him already in house.

So yah, I get where you are coming from.  Totally.  Thanks for the lively and friendly debate.  I won't concede my position, but I surely respect yours.

[ThatJerkDave]

17 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

@HokieHigh

You bring up Campbell and Douglas.

I don't feel like we can bring those two back.  I dig them, no doubt, but with their play this year, they are going to be too expensive.  Is that what you think/feel as well?

And when you look at their careers, this season is the outlier for their play.

It would be wise to take the comp picks when they come for those two and call them both great front office moves by GB.

Or...best case scenario....they go into free agency and don't see the deals they want, so they come back at a lower number.  And that scenario is certainly a very, very long shot to happen.

I agree with the first part.  We know we have to start a rebuild next season.  Get our comp picks from Campbell and Douglas in 2023 and if they hit, that goes a long way toward rebuilding a roster.  Douglas is 26, and will have 6 seasons, while Campbell is 28 and will have 7.  Hopefully we are looking at 4s for these two.  Add in Lucas Patrick, Kevin King, and Chandon Sullivan, we could be getting a pretty good comp pick haul.  We also have the mystery value, and status of Lazard, MVS, and Tonyan.  If we are really lucky, we could get all the bad out in 2022, like a sneeze, and jump right back into being competitive in 2023.

[Old Guy]

28 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I agree with the first part.  We know we have to start a rebuild next season.  Get our comp picks from Campbell and Douglas in 2023 and if they hit, that goes a long way toward rebuilding a roster.  Douglas is 26, and will have 6 seasons, while Campbell is 28 and will have 7.  Hopefully we are looking at 4s for these two.  Add in Lucas Patrick, Kevin King, and Chandon Sullivan, we could be getting a pretty good comp pick haul.  We also have the mystery value, and status of Lazard, MVS, and Tonyan.  If we are really lucky, we could get all the bad out in 2022, like a sneeze, and jump right back into being competitive in 2023.

Love your optimism regarding comp picks, but IMO the only one who would get us one is MVS. Lazard is a restricted free agent, so we tender him and he comes back. Tonyan coming off ACL gets a one-year deal from us. 

King King didn't get any interest in free agency last year, he's not going to this year. Douglas might get an offer but doubt it's top 32 free agent contracts signed, which means no pick. Same for Campbell. 

Sorry to be a Grinch on Christmas. 

[Smidgeon]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I'll add this...when is the last time we let a very good rookie walk after his rookie deal was done?

Or, when was the last time we let a rookie walk at the end of his first deal who was a top 5 player at his position?

My mind immediately goes to Hayward and Hyde.  But neither were top guys at their positions when they left, so that wipes out those two.

Maybe it was Blake Martinez, depending on how you viewed him?  

It wasn't Aaron Jones.  Not 'Vante.  Not Bakh.  Not Sitton, not Lang, not Linsley.

Corey Williams?  He was good for us, but no where near top of his position good.

Maybe it is Greg Jennings?  (Nope, seems like he got a second deal from the Packers.)

Am I missing someone, or does this go back to Bryce Paup???  

Tretter

[vegas492]

1 minute ago, Smidgeon said:

Tretter

Was always hurt.  No where near the top of his position group when we let him go.  He's in the "Hayward" category for me.  Good players who got better once they left.