MKnight82 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, oldman9er said: So you are not a big believer in people learning from their poor conclusions of the past, then? Saying Scherff wasn’t the right pick at 5 isn’t a poor conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTaylorsaPIMP Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I'm all for picking BPA. If he's available to us (which I doubt), he would most likely be BPA AND fit a need. How anyone could be mad at that pick boggles my mind. I know Guard isn't an "elite" position but we're drafting 13th overall, not top 3. The best offensive linemen in the draft at 13 is perfectly reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 Imo, saying Brandon Sherff wasn't the right pick @5 is ridiculous. He's a 2X Pro Bowler & hasn't missed a game or start. 46/46. Josh Doctson is still learning how to play WR. Give me a break guys! My point is, Nelson might be the 1 pick Bruce can't screw up. You have to be very careful on that 1st rd pick. Heck, even careful on your 2nd rd pick. Or you just might end up drafting a Sue Cravens & live to regret it. Don't be creative. Get the big boy from Notre Dame & call I day. Build those Hogs back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, mike23md said: Would you be mad if they take Payne with Vea on the board? Not really. Payne is probably an every down lineman, whereas Vea would leave on passing downs. Given that this team has done with Matt Ionnidis, someone like Payne would thrive. He could play some nose in short yardage, and then be a pass rusher in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 37 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: Imo, saying Brandon Sherff wasn't the right pick @5 is ridiculous. He's a 2X Pro Bowler & hasn't missed a game or start. 46/46. Josh Doctson is still learning how to play WR. Give me a break guys! My point is, Nelson might be the 1 pick Bruce can't screw up. You have to be very careful on that 1st rd pick. Heck, even careful on your 2nd rd pick. Or you just might end up drafting a Sue Cravens & live to regret it. Don't be creative. Get the big boy from Notre Dame & call I day. Build those Hogs back! He's a guard. A freaking guard. You don't take a Guard at number 5 overall. Top guards in 2017, per PFF: David DeCastro - 1st round, 24th pick Zack Martin - 1st, 16th Brandon Brooks - 3rd, 76th Josh Sitton - 4th, 135th Brandon Scherff - 1st, 5th Andrew Norwell - Undrafted Joel Bitonio - 2nd, 35th Rodger Saffold - 2nd, 33rd Shaq Mason - 4th, 131st Kevin Zeitler - 1st, 27th Notice the trend? Only the Redskins were dumb enough to take a guy in the top 5 that shouldn't have gone in the top 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 41 minutes ago, SeanTayorsaPIMP said: I'm all for picking BPA. If he's available to us (which I doubt), he would most likely be BPA AND fit a need. How anyone could be mad at that pick boggles my mind. I know Guard isn't an "elite" position but we're drafting 13th overall, not top 3. The best offensive linemen in the draft at 13 is perfectly reasonable. My problem is the future cost of re-signing him when we are going to already be making Scherff the highest paid guard in the NFL next offseaon or the offseason after. I have no problem with Nelson the player, he’s a stud. The problem I have is paying two guards over $10 million a year which is what we would be doing eventually if we drafted Nelson and signed him to a second contract. To me, it makes much more sense to re-sign Long, Kouandjio and draft another C/G in round 4 or 5 to develop behind Long and Roullier. Having the most expensive OL in the NFL doesn’t always translate to Super Bowls - just look at today’s Cowboy’s OL - they have 30 to 40 million tied up in their OL which makes that unit the best on the team besides Ezekiel Elliot but that leaves them little to no money to build a great D. This isn’t the 1980s and before when there was no salary cap. Back then, we could have the hogs and have reserves who were better than some teams starters because there was no cap. That hasn’t been possible though since 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTaylorsaPIMP Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, Slateman said: He's a guard. A freaking guard. You don't take a Guard at number 5 overall. Top guards in 2017, per PFF: David DeCastro - 1st round, 24th pick Zack Martin - 1st, 16th Brandon Brooks - 3rd, 76th Josh Sitton - 4th, 135th Brandon Scherff - 1st, 5th Andrew Norwell - Undrafted Joel Bitonio - 2nd, 35th Rodger Saffold - 2nd, 33rd Shaq Mason - 4th, 131st Kevin Zeitler - 1st, 27th Notice the trend? Only the Redskins were dumb enough to take a guy in the top 5 that shouldn't have gone in the top 15. I would've 1000% picked Leonard Williams over Scherff but Scherff exceeded my expectations and I consider him a "hit" of a pick. You have to hit on your top 5 picks no matter what. The Giants would've taken Scherff over Ereck Flowers if he was available so that picked kind of worked out two-fold for us. If you consider the Brandon Schreff pick to be a dumb pick, I don't know what to say. Was Sean Taylor a dumb pick in 2004 because "you don't pick a safety in the top 5"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTaylorsaPIMP Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, turtle28 said: My problem is the future cost of re-signing him when we are going to already be making Scherff the highest paid guard in the NFL next offseaon or the offseason after. I have no problem with Nelson the player, he’s a stud. The problem I have is paying two guards over $10 million a year which is what we would be doing eventually if we drafted Nelson and signed him to a second contract. To me, it makes much more sense to re-sign Long, Kouandjio and draft another C/G in round 4 or 5 to develop behind Long and Roullier. Having the most expensive OL in the NFL doesn’t always translate to Super Bowls - just look at today’s Cowboy’s OL - they have 30 to 40 million tied up in their OL which makes that unit the best on the team besides Ezekiel Elliot but that leaves them little to no money to build a great D. This isn’t the 1980s and before when there was no salary cap. Back then, we could have the hogs and have reserves who were better than some teams starters because there was no cap. That hasn’t been possible though since 1993. Good points here. Its always good to look into the future and take contracts into consideration. But if the salary cap keeps going up at the rate it has, we should lock up Schreff now and by the time Nelson hits his contract year, Schreff will look like a bargain. I really don't have much of a rebuttal to be honest haha. I just remember the days of the likes of Stephon Heyer anchoring the Oline and the thought of having one the best olines in the league now gets my heart pumping. I do believe we need to address the Dline over everything right now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, turtle28 said: My problem is the future cost of re-signing him when we are going to already be making Scherff the highest paid guard in the NFL next offseaon or the offseason after. I have no problem with Nelson the player, he’s a stud. The problem I have is paying two guards over $10 million a year which is what we would be doing eventually if we drafted Nelson and signed him to a second contract. To me, it makes much more sense to re-sign Long, Kouandjio and draft another C/G in round 4 or 5 to develop behind Long and Roullier. Having the most expensive OL in the NFL doesn’t always translate to Super Bowls - just look at today’s Cowboy’s OL - they have 30 to 40 million tied up in their OL which makes that unit the best on the team besides Ezekiel Elliot but that leaves them little to no money to build a great D. This isn’t the 1980s and before when there was no salary cap. Back then, we could have the hogs and have reserves who were better than some teams starters because there was no cap. That hasn’t been possible though since 1993. If Dak Prescott didn't suck, they would be more dangerous with that O-line & Zeek or on par with the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Ok, riddle me this. The Cowboys have $45.7 million tied up in 4 of their starting 5 offensive lineman. They can’t even win a playoff game. You know why? Because they have too much money tied up in one position group. They can’t build a good defense because they have too much $ tied up in their OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, Slateman said: Not really. Payne is probably an every down lineman, whereas Vea would leave on passing downs. Given that this team has done with Matt Ionnidis, someone like Payne would thrive. He could play some nose in short yardage, and then be a pass rusher in the middle. An interesting perspective I had not expected to see. I haven't watched enough to say, but from what I did read and see, it was more likely that Vea had better pass rush ability than did Payne. So your statement is more about the weight and conditioning of the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTaylorsaPIMP Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, turtle28 said: Ok, riddle me this. The Cowboys have $45.7 million tied up in 4 of their starting 5 offensive lineman. They can’t even win a playoff game. You know why? Because they have too much money tied up in one position group. They can’t build a good defense because they have too much $ tied up in their OL. The answer to your riddle is to re-watch the two games we played against them this past season. Their line DESTROYED us. Anytime we needed a stop on 3rd down, they would just bulldoze us. In my opinion, as much problems as they have on the defensive end, their line is well worth the big money they are getting. It's the Dez contract that is hurting them the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 Imo, if a player is not only the best at his position, but a player that is considered elite at his position in college? You don't care how high you draft him! ( minus K/P) Be it Guard like Sherff, Safety like Sean Taylor or whomever! If they're available when you select, you take them, period! I believe Nelson Is that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, MKnight82 said: Saying Scherff wasn’t the right pick at 5 isn’t a poor conclusion. Oh, I disagree. This was the comment I responded to Quote I'm fascinated by the forum posters who ripped scherff, who was a consensus better prospect, and who support taking a guard now. The people who ripped the selection of Scherff... in this case.. made the poor conclusion... and now have learned from that by embracing the idea of another top OG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, SeanTayorsaPIMP said: Good points here. Its always good to look into the future and take contracts into consideration. But if the salary cap keeps going up at the rate it has, we should lock up Schreff now and by the time Nelson hits his contract year, Schreff will look like a bargain. I really don't have much of a rebuttal to be honest haha. I just remember the days of the likes of Stephon Heyer anchoring the Oline and the thought of having one the best olines in the league now gets my heart pumping. I do believe we need to address the Dline over everything right now though. The point that the salary cap goes up each year really doesn’t hold much water IMO because players salaries go up every year as well. It’s not like good players at other positions are getting cheaper each year. Paying two Guards over $10 million a year just doesn’t make sense salary cap wise and it will remain that way for about a decade IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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