Josh Allen

[Nastradamus]

3 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

And where is this demonstration at?  The one time we have seen Allen play with other NFL caliber talent (and against nfl talent) he went 9-13 (69%) with 2 tds (and a couple of the best touch tds you'll ever see at that). Yes its a small sample size but thats all we have with legit talent around him.  Thats the only demonstration we have on the field and holds a lot more credence in the argument than "nah-uh"

He has the highest percent of off target throws in 3 drafts, and its by a large gap. The drop rates of his WRs are nothing special and he's not pressured at an abnormal rate. 

[bzane]

22 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

 

i could complete more than 50% of my passes in community college

Woah! Josh Allen attended Firebaugh H.S.??? That's MY Alma Mater!

We had this awesome fight song:

 

[Mox]

1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

The soul & science that aired 2 days ago was 74.3.  His qb coach said he thought it was at least 70, even at 66 the difference is still outstanding.

His number listed at the combine was 62. Very likely the soul & science thing isn't the same drill. Even if they are the combine number is obviously more trustworthy.

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/

[BleedTheClock]

32 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

He has the highest percent of off target throws in 3 drafts, and its by a large gap. The drop rates of his WRs are nothing special and he's not pressured at an abnormal rate. 

If you don't think Allen was under heavy pressure more than any other QB prospect, I don't think you watched the tape. His OL, particularly his RT, was beaten on just about every snap. Plus it's not drops that are the issue. It's the fact that nobody is ever open or working back to the football to help him out after he breaks though 2-3 tackles at the LOS.

[Nastradamus]

4 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

If you don't think Allen was under heavy pressure more than any other QB prospect, I don't think you watched the tape. His OL, particularly his RT, was beaten on just about every snap. Plus it's not drops that are the issue. It's the fact that nobody is ever open or working back to the football to help him out after he breaks though 2-3 tackles at the LOS.

His pressure rate was on the higher end, sure, but it wasn't absurd and he was particularly bad at handling it. None o that accoutns for why he's consistently off target when he isn't pressured. Look at the community college and HS numbers. 

[Forge]

38 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

He has the highest percent of off target throws in 3 drafts, and its by a large gap. The drop rates of his WRs are nothing special and he's not pressured at an abnormal rate. 

I agree that the drop rate is nothing special, it's why I don't completely buy the "lack of talent around him" argument. That works for Jay Cutler when he was coming out. The only time that largely works for Allen is against someone like Nebraska / Iowa...doesn't excuse the Hawaii game, I'll give you that. But I do believe that he was under duress more than any of the other quarterbacks in this draft. I remember that there was a tweet floating out there that acknowledged it that someone posted on here during the season, but I have no idea where it came from. Wish I could find it. 

[BleedTheClock]

Just now, Nastradamus said:

His pressure rate was on the higher end, sure, but it wasn't absurd and he was particularly bad at handling it. None o that accoutns for why he's consistently off target when he isn't pressured. Look at the community college and HS numbers. 

community college and hs numbers? I'll just watch the college tape that shows me he has what it takes to play in the NFL. I'm not arguing that he's the most accurate guy in the world. It's certainly inconsistent and bleh overall, but the completion percentage thing has been beaten to death and there's a reason those numbers are so much lower than everyone elses. Some of it is his own fault, but most of it is the fact that he's playing with future special olympic competitors and is in an offense that asks him to throw moonballs off of play action. There aren't easy completions built into that offense at all. 90% of college offenses nowadays run a bevvy of underneath stuff...layups for QB's. Allen isn't afforded those same kinds of throws for cheap % points.

I'm not worried about Allen. I prefer Darnold at #1 for sure, but I wouldn't shed a tear if it's Allen at #1.

[Nastradamus]

Just now, Forge said:

I agree that the drop rate is nothing special, it's why I don't completely buy the "lack of talent around him" argument. That works for Jay Cutler when he was coming out. The only time that largely works for Allen is against someone like Nebraska / Iowa...doesn't excuse the Hawaii game, I'll give you that. But I do believe that he was under duress more than any of the other quarterbacks in this draft. I remember that there was a tweet floating out there that acknowledged it that someone posted on here during the season, but I have no idea where it came from. Wish I could find it. 

PFF has only a few non-notable QBs as being pressured more than him. I shouldn't have said what I did. I amended above to say that it wasn't absurd enough to account for his numbers nor was he good at handling it. 

[Nastradamus]

Just now, BleedTheClock said:

Icommunity college and hs numbers? I'll just watch the college tape that shows me he has what it takes to play in the NFL. I'm not arguing that he's the most accurate guy in the world. It's certainly inconsistent and bleh overall, but the completion percentage thing has been beaten to death and there's a reason those numbers are so much lower than everyone elses. Some of it is his own fault, but most of it is the fact that he's playing with future special olympic competitors and is in an offense that asks him to throw moonballs off of play action. There aren't easy completions built into that offense at all. 90% of college offenses nowadays run a bevvy of underneath stuff...layups for QB's. Allen isn't afforded those same kinds of throws for cheap % points.

I'm not worried about Allen. I prefer Darnold at #1 for sure, but I wouldn't shed a tear if it's Allen at #1.

I'm not saying HS numbers are key for everyone man, but when you are inaccurate for 6 years straight or whatever and accuracy is the #1 key for QB success probably while also being the one thing you really can't fix at the NFL level, I'd say its a key and reasonable detail to include. 

[Nastradamus]

ALlen is Paxton Lynch, Brock OSweiler and Kyle Boller. We've seen this story. 

[BleedTheClock]

Just now, Nastradamus said:

PFF has only a few non-notable QBs as being pressured more than him. I shouldn't have said what I did. I amended above to say that it wasn't absurd enough to account for his numbers nor was he good at handling it. 

Disagree with the bolded. He was elite at evading the rush and keeping his eyes down the field. When you're in a deep-shot offense and you get pressured 2 seconds into every snap, it's kind of hard to make anything happen. He would break 1-2 tackles, be forced to rush outside where the field was split in half, WR's were blanketed, and he had to throw it out of bounds or in the dirt. This happened an insane amount of times at Wyoming in several different games against other BAD teams.

[BleedTheClock]

4 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

ALlen is Paxton Lynch, Brock OSweiler and Kyle Boller. We've seen this story. 

Gross oversimplification. I can't believe you didn't put Christian Hackenberg's name in there. He's a big tall white dude with a great arm. Must be exactly the same as the others.

[Nastradamus]

2 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Disagree with the bolded. He was elite at evading the rush and keeping his eyes down the field. When you're in a deep-shot offense and you get pressured 2 seconds into every snap, it's kind of hard to make anything happen. He would break 1-2 tackles, be forced to rush outside where the field was split in half, WR's were blanketed, and he had to throw it out of bounds or in the dirt. This happened an insane amount of times at Wyoming in several different games against other BAD teams.

Well he had a below average rating under pressure. 

Also we've all seen his tape, can we tone the drama down, he wasn't fighting the Viet Cong 

[Nastradamus]

Just now, BleedTheClock said:

Gross oversimplification. I can't believe you didn't put Christian Hackenberg's name in there. He's a big tall white dude with a great arm. Must be exactly the same as the others.

No, he's a big inaccurate guy who people got fascinated with because of physical attributes when he simply doesn't do the things well that are key to QB success, namely process information and throw accurately. Hackenberg should also be included I agree. 

[Forge]

5 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

ALlen is Paxton Lynch, Brock OSweiler and Kyle Boller. We've seen this story. 

I don't like the Lynch comparison. Never have. The only similar thing I see to them is their body build. Lynch actually was far behind Allen with regards to the mental part of the game in my opinion, then you also have the part where it just doesn't seem like he cares and has no interest in trying to improve. 

I don't hate the Osweiler comp, they suffer some similar issues, but Allen's traits are a little better I'd argue.

Kyle Boller...again, big arm, accuracy issues, but I don't think that enough people fully remember / saw Boller enough in college to make that comp. I feel like this comparison lives and dies on the black and white numbers and the fact that Boller had a huge arm.