Josh Allen

[Da_Ducktator]

2 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Those are completely unfair comps in every way. Stafford and Ryan simply weren't as inaccurate coming out on tape as Allen and Cam and Watson have their running game.  Allen isn't going to rush for 500 + yards for you, yeesh.  

Josh Allen ran for over 500 yards as a sophomore, and in college sacks count as negative yardage, and he isn't asked to run nearly the amount Cam does/did. Allen is a little awkward laterally in his movement, but if he was asked to run an offense similar to the type that Cam Newton has run, Allen is clearly athletic enough to make plays in that regard. Heck, Carson Wentz ran for 299 yards this year as they began to mix in more RPO and isn't as good of an athlete as Allen is...

Comments make it seem like you flat out have never watched the guy play. He isn't Cam Newton, but he is a great athlete for the position and if the offense called for it, he would be capable of putting up at least near the yardage marker you suggested..

[Rockice_8]

14 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I don't have the stat to back it up, but based on watching CFB, no. Darnold had a lot of slip screens built in to his offense and Mayfield's Oklahoma offense was riddled with quick passes and screeno's.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/75552/jets-have-a-josh-allen-conundrum-poor-scheme-fit-versus-big-upside

 

Here's the quote

"Allen's career completion percentage (56.2) has been the most scrutinized stat of any player. Critics say his accuracy issue will prevent him from reaching his full potential in the NFL. Typically, a quarterback's percentage doesn't improve at the next level. Supporters say he was victimized by a poor surrounding cast and that, unlike the other top prospects, he played in an offense that didn't allow for many gimme completions. Some of that is myth. Allen threw a higher percentage of short passes than Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. In fact, 30 percent of his attempts traveled zero to 5 yards in the air. ..."

[BleedTheClock]

3 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Those are completely unfair comps in every way. Stafford and Ryan simply weren't as inaccurate coming out on tape as Allen and Cam and Watson have their running game.  Allen isn't going to rush for 500 + yards for you, yeesh.  

So the only reason Cam and Watson are good is because they can get you rushing yards? And you might wanna check those accuracy numbers my man. Both Ryan and Stafford were wildly inaccurate.

 

Also, no reason to believe Josh Allen couldn't run for 500 yards. He's a stud athlete. They didn't run Allen a lot because they were a play action vertical shot team, not a heavy QB run team. And because he had a banged up shoulder and was the entire program.

[BleedTheClock]

3 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/75552/jets-have-a-josh-allen-conundrum-poor-scheme-fit-versus-big-upside

 

Here's the quote

"Allen's career completion percentage (56.2) has been the most scrutinized stat of any player. Critics say his accuracy issue will prevent him from reaching his full potential in the NFL. Typically, a quarterback's percentage doesn't improve at the next level. Supporters say he was victimized by a poor surrounding cast and that, unlike the other top prospects, he played in an offense that didn't allow for many gimme completions. Some of that is myth. Allen threw a higher percentage of short passes than Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. In fact, 30 percent of his attempts traveled zero to 5 yards in the air. ..."

wow...that blows my mind.

[Shanedorf]

Just now, BleedTheClock said:

Also, no reason to believe Josh Allen couldn't run for 500 yards. He's a stud athlete.

Another snippet from Bob McGinn's draft series.

wide variety of opinions, just like here at FF

 

JOSH ALLEN, Wyoming (6-5, 234, 4.77, 1): Led all QBs in a stunning six categories: the 40, Wonderlic (37), vertical jump (33 ½), broad jump (9-11), arm length (33 ¼) and hand size (10 1/8). “Looks like Carson Wentz on the hoof … or Troy Aikman,” one scout said. “He is the biggest and best physical specimen of all of them. He’s just not as far along.” 

“There’s been nobody that’s been good with his poor stats, his lack of dominance, the low percentage and the lack of winning. I just don’t think he has a good feel for the game. That’s his problem. And this guy is not in the SEC or the Big Ten. This guy played in a terrible level of competition (Mountain West). Even the good players from small schools (Eastern Illinois) like Jimmy Garoppolo, those guys dominated. When you start making excuses for a guy, it’s over with. You should stop right there. You do it or you don’t.”

One of his coaches said he can throw a ball 89, 90 yards. “I’m not saying his arm is Terry Bradshaw’s but it’s as good an arm as you’d want,” another scout said. “Those kids at Wyoming couldn’t hang on (to his passes). Ten years from now you’ll think this kid was the best kid in the class. I think he’ll have a long and storied career.”

[goldfishwars]

2 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Another snippet from Bob McGinn's draft series.

wide variety of opinions, just like here at FF

 

JOSH ALLEN, Wyoming (6-5, 234, 4.77, 1): Led all QBs in a stunning six categories: the 40, Wonderlic (37), vertical jump (33 ½), broad jump (9-11), arm length (33 ¼) and hand size (10 1/8). “Looks like Carson Wentz on the hoof … or Troy Aikman,” one scout said. “He is the biggest and best physical specimen of all of them. He’s just not as far along.” 

“There’s been nobody that’s been good with his poor stats, his lack of dominance, the low percentage and the lack of winning. I just don’t think he has a good feel for the game. That’s his problem. And this guy is not in the SEC or the Big Ten. This guy played in a terrible level of competition (Mountain West). Even the good players from small schools (Eastern Illinois) like Jimmy Garoppolo, those guys dominated. When you start making excuses for a guy, it’s over with. You should stop right there. You do it or you don’t.”

One of his coaches said he can throw a ball 89, 90 yards. “I’m not saying his arm is Terry Bradshaw’s but it’s as good an arm as you’d want,” another scout said. “Those kids at Wyoming couldn’t hang on (to his passes). Ten years from now you’ll think this kid was the best kid in the class. I think he’ll have a long and storied career.”

Lol - this dude couldn't be any more polarizing. I can't wait to see how this all shakes out, I love it. 

[Forge]

13 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/75552/jets-have-a-josh-allen-conundrum-poor-scheme-fit-versus-big-upside

 

Here's the quote

"Allen's career completion percentage (56.2) has been the most scrutinized stat of any player. Critics say his accuracy issue will prevent him from reaching his full potential in the NFL. Typically, a quarterback's percentage doesn't improve at the next level. Supporters say he was victimized by a poor surrounding cast and that, unlike the other top prospects, he played in an offense that didn't allow for many gimme completions. Some of that is myth. Allen threw a higher percentage of short passes than Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. In fact, 30 percent of his attempts traveled zero to 5 yards in the air. ..."

In fairness, that number does drop down to about 25% when you account for those throws he makes that just hit the ground two seconds after they leave his hand 

[Superman(DH23)]

47 minutes ago, goldfishwars said:

Lol - this dude couldn't be any more polarizing. I can't wait to see how this all shakes out, I love it. 

Yeah thats really what this all comes down to.  His tape is the toughest to evaluate of the big 4 bc of the surrounding talent.  When im watching, play after play after play nobody is open and Allen is having to make 1 or 2 guys miss in the backfield before saying eff it and firing a laser at somebodys head.  But when i turn on the Senior Bowl tape its...just...wow.  One thing i will say is the accuracy is so tied to his feet, thats why hes as good as he is on the run. If his feet are right the ball arrives in a hurry right between the numbers.  When his footwork gets sloppy, the ball gets sloppy.  One of the reasons I think Cleveland would be a real good fit for him.  As the #3, he wont get many reps in practice, so you can really work on dialing in the feet.  Hes made tremendous strides this offseason.  I think its definitely fixable and i think hes got the work ethic to fix it.

[Jakuvious]

8 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Yes, yes he does.  Its Brett Favre level arm srength.  There is a serious possibility he will have the strongest arm in the NFL the moment he steps on the field.  They clocked his ball speed at 74.3 mph on release.  Kaep was 57 mph, Ryan Mallett was 58 mph, Cam was 56 mph.  Let that all sink in for a second.  3 of the top arms we've seen come out in recent years are nearly 20 mph slower than Allen.  Allen achieves speeds typically only seen by place kickers.  Its stupid arm talent and puts him on another level.  Its why he could have some success throwing into mostly nonexistant windows.

 

Edit:  I found Favre's ball was clocked at 63 mph, and anecdotally Rod Smith said they would turn up the Jugs machine to 70 to simulate Elways throws.  So maybe we've seen a similar arm before but its truly generational.

I mean, that's cool and all, but when do you ever actually want your QB to be throwing that hard? I feel like there's a point where your arm being a bit stronger no longer becomes useful. If his arm is stronger than Favre's, cool, but I don't know that I want a QB, in a real game, ever throwing the ball harder than Favre would've. I mean heck, a big talk when KC drafted Mahomes was that he needed to learn to take some heat off the ball. I remember NFL Network doing an arm strength test with him, and he could hit 58 mph consistently and accurately. If he just winged it, he could push to like the low/mid 60s, but then he'd lose some accuracy on it. It's no different from the whole how far a guy can throw thing. These are nice claims to be able to make, but they aren't actually all that practically useful. If you have to throw 70 mph to hit a window, don't make that throw anyway.

[Soko]

3 hours ago, Forge said:

I don't like the Lynch comparison. Never have. The only similar thing I see to them is their body build. Lynch actually was far behind Allen with regards to the mental part of the game in my opinion, then you also have the part where it just doesn't seem like he cares and has no interest in trying to improve. 

I don't hate the Osweiler comp, they suffer some similar issues, but Allen's traits are a little better I'd argue.

Kyle Boller...again, big arm, accuracy issues, but I don't think that enough people fully remember / saw Boller enough in college to make that comp. I feel like this comparison lives and dies on the black and white numbers and the fact that Boller had a huge arm. 

My potential NFL comp for Allen is a stronger armed Blake Bortles. A big quarterback with a strong arm that can get some with his legs, but will struggle with accuracy and mechanics. Iffy decision maker. 

If Allen fixes his footwork and learns to throw with anticipation, he’d be a more athletic Stafford.

[Breesus mode]

4 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

If you don't think Allen was under heavy pressure more than any other QB prospect, I don't think you watched the tape. His OL, particularly his RT, was beaten on just about every snap. Plus it's not drops that are the issue. It's the fact that nobody is ever open or working back to the football to help him out after he breaks though 2-3 tackles at the LOS.

If you want to be the first pick in the draft, you need to deal with it, and put up a better performance.

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, Breesus mode said:

If you want to be the first pick in the draft, you need to deal with it, and put up a better performance.

You mean like Sam Darnold, who was strip sacked at a hilarious rate? Get real. 

[bzane]

2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

My potential NFL comp for Allen is a stronger armed Blake Bortles

Holy Cow! Blake Freakin' Bortles, that's a pretty bold statement there, @Yin-Yang! (Sexy proposed avatar, gratis)

Now, do you mean, the Original Blake Bortles, who performed like a Rodeo Clown his first three years?

 

OR, are you referring to the new and improved Blake Bortles who, following the frantic advice given on these pages, greatly improved his mechanics by a) attending Greg Maddux's "Breaking Ball, Down In The Dirt" Pitching Accuracy Academy, and b) Hiring a bunch of Jiffy Lube techs, the guys who tell you your air filter needs to also be replaced every time you're there for an LOF?

The New Blake, who hired a Flamenco Master as his footwork coach, and now moves like one himself?

 

 

[Kiwibrown]

I have decided that Josh Allen will be a slightly better Drew Blesdloe. And less ****** like. 

[TheEagle]

9 hours ago, Da_Ducktator said:

Josh Allen ran for over 500 yards as a sophomore, and in college sacks count as negative yardage, and he isn't asked to run nearly the amount Cam does/did. Allen is a little awkward laterally in his movement, but if he was asked to run an offense similar to the type that Cam Newton has run, Allen is clearly athletic enough to make plays in that regard. Heck, Carson Wentz ran for 299 yards this year as they began to mix in more RPO and isn't as good of an athlete as Allen is...

Comments make it seem like you flat out have never watched the guy play. He isn't Cam Newton, but he is a great athlete for the position and if the offense called for it, he would be capable of putting up at least near the yardage marker you suggested..

I'm on the Allen bandwagon, but I wouldn't say Wentz "isn't as good of an athlete as Allen is". They are almost identical across the board. Practically identical in 40, 3 cone, and broad jump. Wentz had a nice edge in shuttle. Allen had a nice edge in vertical. Both measured at 6'5" 237. It's eeriy how similar they are physically.