Official Pistons Thread: Offseason

[General Tso]

Killian cannot keep starting at this rate.

Also it's clear we are already at a point where we need Duren to be healthy in order to win.

[Sllim Pickens]

I just can't imagine why Hayes is getting so much love by the staff.  From what I have seen there just isn't anything positive with him out there as a primary player.  Seems like he would fit much better as a bench player to come in next to Dame and Middleton or maybe in Phoenix running with Booker, Durant and Beal when he is healthy or something like that.  He just shouldn't be carrying a workload like this on a team who lacks shooters like we do.  I think he could be a solid distributor on a team like that off the bench but just doesn't work here. 

[catcheryea]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:56 PM, catcheryea said:

having a coach who makes adjustments from game to game is kind of tripping me out

yeah i take it back

i only watched the last six minutes so i don't know exactly what led to blowing a 15 point third quarter lead, but one of these beat reporters needs to do their job and ask what's the deal with ivey. it looks like he didn't have a great game last night but any coach watching cade clearly gassed at the end of the game and still having to create every shot on every possession and first putting killian back in, and then going with sasser and joe harris over ivey either has to be insane or there's something deeper going on that we don't know about

i've said before, this team can be a ton fun when cade isn't facing help defense at both elbows and off both corners. and am i crazy or was that not the appeal of drafting ivey? put a secondary ball handler who's also an electric athlete on the floor with cade and let them play off each other. instead cade is somehow shouldering more of the offensive load than he did in either of his first two years, when everyone everywhere agreed he needs some help. even in the few minutes they are on the floor together they treat ivey like he's career journeyman 7th man

but based on suns' fans critiques of monty, i don't expect any changes to the starting lineup, the rotation, or how guys are used

[catcheryea]

this is my last killian post ever because i'm just doing damage to my mental health thinking about him playing basketball, but his shooting splits this year are 27 (TWENTY SEVEN)/23 (TWENTY THREE)/57. his true shooting is 34 (THIRTY FOUR)

he had the worst ts% last year by four percentage points and he's somehow 11 points worse this year. there isn't a spot on the floor that is a good look for him. teams don't guard him. they don't care. he can have any shot he wants at any time, it's basically as good as a turnover

anybody, including the coaching staff, who thinks he is contributing positively to the offensive end in any way is living in complete denial. but because of "defense" he gets to actively negatively impact the other four guys on the floor while ivey is stuck on the bench because he gets stuck on screens and lost off ball. i hate to break it to monty but ivey is both a better offensive player than killian is a defender, AND ivey is a better defender than killian is offensive player

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, catcheryea said:

this is my last killian post ever because i'm just doing damage to my mental health thinking about him playing basketball, but his shooting splits this year are 27 (TWENTY SEVEN)/23 (TWENTY THREE)/57. his true shooting is 34 (THIRTY FOUR)

he had the worst ts% last year by four percentage points and he's somehow 11 points worse this year. there isn't a spot on the floor that is a good look for him. teams don't guard him. they don't care. he can have any shot he wants at any time, it's basically as good as a turnover

anybody, including the coaching staff, who thinks he is contributing positively to the offensive end in any way is living in complete denial. but because of "defense" he gets to actively negatively impact the other four guys on the floor while ivey is stuck on the bench because he gets stuck on screens and lost off ball. i hate to break it to monty but ivey is both a better offensive player than killian is a defender, AND ivey is a better defender than killian is offensive player

This is the same thing I have been experiencing forever in East Lansing with Izzo.  The difference is Izzo has developed enough guys to trust him but he still sat Cassius Winston most of his freshman year for Tum Tum who was Killian Hayes lite when it was obvious Winston was the guy.  Similarly he played Ben Carter against the Syracuse Zone for his passing but he was a waste everywhere else and we lose a 1st round game against a worse team while our top 4 lottery pick sits on the bench.  I don't get why coaches do this, and hopefully Monty is just trying to inspire Ivey to get better on D knowing we aren't a playoff team this year and trying to instill it in him but at some point you have to play the better talent or the whole team will turn on the coach.  They want to win, and we have been in the games we have lost and may win those if Ivey is out there.  Not to mention it is coming at the expense of the offensive development of Cade who is out there with guys who don't fit with him. 

Side note, I haven't been able to watch a ton of them this year (dont have Bally Sports anymore) but has Ivey been that bad on D even?  

[catcheryea]

31 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Side note, I haven't been able to watch a ton of them this year (dont have Bally Sports anymore) but has Ivey been that bad on D even?  

he’s been a little better but still pretty bad. like i said he’s still getting lost off ball and stuck on screens (even though he’s not completely dying on them all the time anymore) and he’s been late to communicate switches (but it’s hard to know exactly whose fault that is)

and for some reason he’s also playing him a lot with burks and harris and he has to take the primary scorer which i don’t fully understand

but if you put him in the starting lineup with four good defenders surely there’s an easier way to hide ivey on defense than hiding killian on offense

[Sllim Pickens]

5 minutes ago, catcheryea said:

he’s been a little better but still pretty bad. like i said he’s still getting lost off ball and stuck on screens (even though he’s not completely dying on them all the time anymore) and he’s been late to communicate switches (but it’s hard to know exactly whose fault that is)

and for some reason he’s also playing him a lot with burks and harris and he has to take the primary scorer which i don’t fully understand

but if you put him in the starting lineup with four good defenders surely there’s an easier way to hide ivey on defense than hiding killian on offense

That makes a lot of sense.  He should be guarding the 3rd best wing player on the court instead of the best.  I think that would help with confidence for one but also just reducing the impact of his bad D.  Its odd that he is so bad though.  He is super athletic and quick and should be able to D up if he wants to.  So maybe thats all Monty is doing is trying to bring out that desire to be a great defender.  Getting in that mindset and not being focused on offense will help him a ton.  

[catcheryea]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

That makes a lot of sense.  He should be guarding the 3rd best wing player on the court instead of the best.  I think that would help with confidence for one but also just reducing the impact of his bad D.  Its odd that he is so bad though.  He is super athletic and quick and should be able to D up if he wants to.  So maybe thats all Monty is doing is trying to bring out that desire to be a great defender.  Getting in that mindset and not being focused on offense will help him a ton.  

yeah, he weirdly doesn't move his feet that well and he's too jumpy instead of trusting that he can stay step for step and i think that catches him off balance or slightly out of position a lot. he's also too willing to trail through screens and not in a way that allows him to get back to level with the ball handler. so some of it definitely technique that i think he can improve but i don't think he'll ever been a particularly good defender

[catcheryea]

do you think troy has ever earnestly self reflected on the wiseman deal

[MOSteelers56]

14 hours ago, catcheryea said:

do you think troy has ever earnestly self reflected on the wiseman deal

We gave up almost nothing for a big potential guy. Didn't work out. I don't think this is some colossal whiff.  

[Sllim Pickens]

6 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

We gave up almost nothing for a big potential guy. Didn't work out. I don't think this is some colossal whiff.  

To be fair, Bey would be significantly more valuable to this team this year than Wiseman is.  Between the contract and the fact that we already have too many similar players, it was a pretty big whiff.  Bey is not great, but his shot and rebounding as a smaller 4 would be significantly better on the court right now. 

[MOSteelers56]

40 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

To be fair, Bey would be significantly more valuable to this team this year than Wiseman is.  Between the contract and the fact that we already have too many similar players, it was a pretty big whiff.  Bey is not great, but his shot and rebounding as a smaller 4 would be significantly better on the court right now. 

No doubt. I'm not really broken up about losing Bey. I liked him, but I don't blame Troy for swinging at Wiseman. We knew what Bey was, and that ain't much. Wiseman had a chance to be a franchise changer. Obviously, we know now that he isn't, but I don't blame Troy for acquiring talent. 

[catcheryea]

2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

We gave up almost nothing for a big potential guy. Didn't work out. I don't think this is some colossal whiff.  

i said it an hour after the trade, he moved a guy who hasn't shown he can help you win games for a guy you who hasn't shown he belongs in the nba. as bad as wiseman is, i've never once wished saddiq was back on the roster

i meant more so, do you think troy has thought about the fact that his initial draft scouting of wiseman was wildly and completely wrong and that maybe he needs change his evaluation process to use evidence outside of high school and aau to figure out if a guy is good (or not even if he's good, but if he can play at all). and also why wiseman doesn't work, on this team specifically, and in the general nba today

i also said this right after the trade, i'd rather have the five 2nd rounders, and i wonder if troy thinks the same now

[catcheryea]

i've stopped watching mostly because i think it's asinine ivey is the only one held accountable for his mistakes and that they constantly force him into positions to get exploited defensively for which he then gets benched. especially since whenever bojan comes back, they'll let him let guys walk to the rim for 35 minutes a night because he provides scoring while ivey's on the bench and cade has seven turnovers. also because they let killian play with more freedom offensively than ivey even in the 20 minutes he plays and that's not a brand of basketball i'm interested in, but there's a non zero chance when the whole roster is healthy that ivey is the 6th guard

[MOSteelers56]

Should have pulled out a W against the Bucks. I can't wait to see this team at full strength. Sasser can light it up. I want to see how Monty handles the guard rotation when Burks, Morris, and Ivey are healthy. 

I also just watched Giannis get ejected. That was a weak call. Giannis was rightfully pumped after that brutal poster he put Stew on. I can't blame him for getting hyped. That was nasty.