Sllim Pickens Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 On 10/14/2023 at 8:20 PM, detfan782004 said: And it doesn't matter as the lottery this year is not as good at the top It matters because we need to see progress to have any faith in the rebuild. If we are a 20-25 win team this year again with the worst record in basketball, it means the rebuild isn't working and it likely is time to move on from Weaver. We have some promising young pieces but he can't put a team together. Given there isn't a Victor W, Scoot, Cade, Paolo, Chet type prospect in this class is even more reason to need to show progress and not depend on yet another rookie to advance the rebuild. Its getting tiring being in a constant rebuild and need something to grasp going forward. Similar to the Lions and Wings last year and the Tigers this year. Make progress, show that the young star prospects can become stars, and take that momentum into the next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 47 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: It matters because we need to see progress to have any faith in the rebuild. If we are a 20-25 win team this year again with the worst record in basketball, it means the rebuild isn't working and it likely is time to move on from Weaver. We have some promising young pieces but he can't put a team together. Given there isn't a Victor W, Scoot, Cade, Paolo, Chet type prospect in this class is even more reason to need to show progress and not depend on yet another rookie to advance the rebuild. Its getting tiring being in a constant rebuild and need something to grasp going forward. Similar to the Lions and Wings last year and the Tigers this year. Make progress, show that the young star prospects can become stars, and take that momentum into the next season. I was referencing the hope to get a top 5 pick in previous comment: I don't think a top 5 pick does anything. kinda like you said they should be further along in this rebuild than earning a top 5 pick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 i turned off the game in the middle of the second quarter, and even though it seems like the offense was better after i stopped watching, i'm pretty disillusioned with the coaching and whatever the game plan seems to be. if the only thing the organization cares about this year is making weaver look like he's the smartest guy in the league for stewart's extension, it's not going to go very well it's just a total disaster if they aren't playing fast. stewart is such a negative offensive player if he's not hitting 3s. i think he's 3-16 from 3 so far and at least most of them have been pretty open catch and shoots. every time they end up with him running off the dho i facepalm and wonder how we got here. there were points last night when cade and duren were running pnr and okc had all five defenders in the paint. i can deal with ausar not providing spacing (even though he's 4-8 from 3 right now) because he's an incredible cutter and passer and will figure out how to take back some of the space he's given, but stew doesn't do any of that and it makes everybody else's lives so much harder. it doesn't really matter if the fifth starter is ivey, ausar, bojan, burks, even killian, if they have a guy who can't give them anything on half the floor one of the first tipping points for me last night was watching wiseman try to post up chet for a whole possession, ivey finally dejectedly dumps it into him and he immediately walks (i think the walk was the same possession). so as time goes on i think more and more neither bagley or wiseman should play at all and stew should be the backup 5. play him 22 minutes a night, overlapping with duren for a few minutes here and there to see if it works and if he starts hitting shots, expand it a little bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC421/ Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 10 hours ago, catcheryea said: i turned off the game in the middle of the second quarter, and even though it seems like the offense was better after i stopped watching, i'm pretty disillusioned with the coaching and whatever the game plan seems to be. if the only thing the organization cares about this year is making weaver look like he's the smartest guy in the league for stewart's extension, it's not going to go very well it's just a total disaster if they aren't playing fast. stewart is such a negative offensive player if he's not hitting 3s. i think he's 3-16 from 3 so far and at least most of them have been pretty open catch and shoots. every time they end up with him running off the dho i facepalm and wonder how we got here. there were points last night when cade and duren were running pnr and okc had all five defenders in the paint. i can deal with ausar not providing spacing (even though he's 4-8 from 3 right now) because he's an incredible cutter and passer and will figure out how to take back some of the space he's given, but stew doesn't do any of that and it makes everybody else's lives so much harder. it doesn't really matter if the fifth starter is ivey, ausar, bojan, burks, even killian, if they have a guy who can't give them anything on half the floor one of the first tipping points for me last night was watching wiseman try to post up chet for a whole possession, ivey finally dejectedly dumps it into him and he immediately walks (i think the walk was the same possession). so as time goes on i think more and more neither bagley or wiseman should play at all and stew should be the backup 5. play him 22 minutes a night, overlapping with duren for a few minutes here and there to see if it works and if he starts hitting shots, expand it a little bit I have always considered Stew as one of the problems in the log jam of bigs. You can’t play him with a center that doesn’t stretch the floor, he’s a 5 not the versatile 4 Troy wants him to be. He’s closer to Looney than whatever Troy thinks he is. Not a bad player and can be an asset at the 5 on a lot of teams but he’s no stretch 4. I’ve convinced myself for the longest time that there’s always been a method to Troy’s madness. Collect assets regardless of fit or timeline and trade them when the time is right. It worked out great with Grant but the Bagley and Stew extensions to go with acquiring Wiseman is really blowing up in his face. I’m not sure any of them really have much if any trade value. Maybe Stew if a team thinks they need to add some grit for a playoff push or projected matchup but the other 2 are dead weight at this point. If this season turns into a tire fire there’s always the hope that those contracts could help us become a partner in other teams deals and Bojan could ultimately land us a Grant style return. I still think this team can compete for playoff/play in range but Monty/Troy will have to cut ties with this experiment and quickly. There just not good enough to wait til 1/3 1/2 season to make the switch. The verdict is in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 14 hours ago, BigC421/ said: I have always considered Stew as one of the problems in the log jam of bigs. You can’t play him with a center that doesn’t stretch the floor, he’s a 5 not the versatile 4 Troy wants him to be. He’s closer to Looney than whatever Troy thinks he is. Not a bad player and can be an asset at the 5 on a lot of teams but he’s no stretch 4. I’ve convinced myself for the longest time that there’s always been a method to Troy’s madness. Collect assets regardless of fit or timeline and trade them when the time is right. It worked out great with Grant but the Bagley and Stew extensions to go with acquiring Wiseman is really blowing up in his face. I’m not sure any of them really have much if any trade value. Maybe Stew if a team thinks they need to add some grit for a playoff push or projected matchup but the other 2 are dead weight at this point. If this season turns into a tire fire there’s always the hope that those contracts could help us become a partner in other teams deals and Bojan could ultimately land us a Grant style return. I still think this team can compete for playoff/play in range but Monty/Troy will have to cut ties with this experiment and quickly. There just not good enough to wait til 1/3 1/2 season to make the switch. The verdict is in the only thing we need to know about stewart starting is that whenever anyone in the organization gets asked about him, they never say, "we love what he brings to the floor on both ends. he can guard up or down, protect the rim, and rebound. we can play big or small with him on the floor without giving up much. and on offense we believe in his shot. he's put the work in all summer and we think he'll help us space the floor." it's always, "you need guys who embody your city on your basketball team." there's no actual basketball analysis that goes into assessing how he's playing. they, and troy, very specifically, are so intent on proving that they're right in their draft scouting (with wiseman too) that nothing else matters. i've said before that if killian wasn't troy's literal first move as gm, he would've been traded years ago, but he just doesn't know when to let go, even, and especially, when it's detrimental to the rest of the team. even with all of the talk about how physical and hard nosed stewart is, he's just as bad of a screener as wiseman, who is deathly afraid of contact (although stew's problem may be that he can't process setting a solid screen and then rolling instead of rolling mid screen. we really don't talk enough about how bad his general basketball movement iq is). sam vecenie tweeted last night that the most important thing detroit needs to do this year is figure out if cade is a real number one option. and after watching him playing against team usa with a spaced floor, they've decided to start at least three non shooters every game. i don't think he's hit the paint with less than three guys in front of him but even with all of that said, the actual game day coaching has been borderline bad. the offense looks incredibly bland and uninspiring (seriously it might be worse than what casey was doing), and there's still no one communicating on defense and rotations are as slow and late as they were last year when they were starting two 10 day guys at the end of the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I know it's rough being a Pistons fan, but I think we're being a little harsh on the no shooters thing. We have a legit sharpshooter in our starting lineup, but he's injured right now. Once Bogi comes back, it'll look better. I'm also not convinced the rotations we saw in the pre-season are what we're going to see in the regular season. Burks, Bogi, and Harris(it's the only thing he can do, but still) are all upper tier 3 point shooters. Cade will play with shooters, they just need to get healthy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: I know it's rough being a Pistons fan, but I think we're being a little harsh on the no shooters thing. We have a legit sharpshooter in our starting lineup, but he's injured right now. Once Bogi comes back, it'll look better. I'm also not convinced the rotations we saw in the pre-season are what we're going to see in the regular season. Burks, Bogi, and Harris(it's the only thing he can do, but still) are all upper tier 3 point shooters. Cade will play with shooters, they just need to get healthy. The problem is that our best shooters are not in the top 5 players on the team (maybe Bogey but he isn't a great player). Putting other shooters on the floor like Harris or Burkes takes one of our better all around players off the court. We need Ivey, Ausar, and Stewart (or Duren but less likely) to hit outside shots to force some defenders out of the paint since those are the guys that should be our future. If Duren can even start hitting 10-16 footers it will help some to pull defenders a little further out. Stewart is just too small for what he is. He is a true center in a power forwards body but he doesn't have the skills to be what we need him to be. I would start Cade, Ivey, Thompson, Bogey and Duren most games and hope that Ausar keeps shooting the way he has so far. We can at times play Stewart at the 4 but we really can't play any of Stewart, Duren, Wiseman, or Bagley at the same time for long. Weaver has done an awful job of putting a team together. He is collecting talent but they can't play together and that ends up hurting all of them development wise. I wish we could swap Stewart and Hayes for Patrick Williams or something like that. He fits what Weaver is looking for at the 4 much better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: I know it's rough being a Pistons fan, but I think we're being a little harsh on the no shooters thing. We have a legit sharpshooter in our starting lineup, but he's injured right now. Once Bogi comes back, it'll look better. I'm also not convinced the rotations we saw in the pre-season are what we're going to see in the regular season. Burks, Bogi, and Harris(it's the only thing he can do, but still) are all upper tier 3 point shooters. Cade will play with shooters, they just need to get healthy. sure, but then what was the point of the preseason if not to different lineups play together? put cade, ivey/burks, harris (bojan subsitute), ausar, and duren out there and see if it works as a proof of concept. if there's not enough defense for monty's liking or whatever, fine, but at least we would sort of have an idea of what that would look like but they're so committed to a) starting stewart and b) building the identity of the team around defense (or at least wanting to claim they're building around defense) that they're cutting off their nose to spite their face. i'm 75% sure the starting lineup wednesday will be killian, cade, ausar, stew, duren. best career 3pt shooter in that group? isaiah stewart, 32.7%. we're in year four of stewart and he's been in four different roles. energy bench big, starting traditional pick and roll big, starting stretch 5, and now starting stretch 4. aside from year one to two, do we think he's been in a different role every year because he's looked so good they want to keep expanding his role, or because he's been pretty dreadful and they're doing mental gymnastics to try and keep him on the floor? but the worst part is that it doesn't even really matter who they start, they're not going to be good defensively, especially when bojan comes back. they have what? maybe 3.5 good defenders right now on the entire roster? duren is just too young and they still don't have anybody communicating. best case scenario they're probably around 15th to 18th on defense, but what does it matter if they're 28th in offense because they're not doing anything to get easy looks in the half court? is losing 55 games 106-98 really better than losing 55 games 126-118? the idea that they have to mimic the bad boys and the going to work teams and be the enforcing, defensive standard setters in the nba in order to win games is so stupid. those teams won doing that because that's what their rosters dictated and that's how the league was operating. instead of looking at this roster and figuring out how to play to its strengths they're trying to put a square peg in a round hole and forcing them to do something they weren't built for (not that troy had any grand vision when he was constructing the roster over the past four years). kyp people not even for winning or helping cade, but just for watchability, i would love to see them start a group that makes sense offensively and just ******* run. and if they can't do that, space the floor, exploit mismatches, drive and kick, hit cutters, just be fun 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 You guys both make good points, honestly. I don't really have much to push back against. And honestly, I don't really watch them so I hardly have the 100% correct opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 I just saw a rough stat. The Process 6ers had 35 wins over 4 years with Hinkie. We've had 40 over 4 years with Troy. I knew it was bad, but yikes. ::EDIT:: I might be wrong on that. Years are hard. Either way, not good. 60 wins in 3 seasons with Troy. Apparently years are hard for me, as well as addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: I just saw a rough stat. The Process 6ers had 35 wins over 4 years with Hinkie. We've had 40 over 4 years with Troy. I knew it was bad, but yikes. ::EDIT:: I might be wrong on that. Years are hard. Either way, not good. 60 wins in 3 seasons with Troy. Apparently years are hard for me, as well as addition. lmao i think you might have gotten ballsacked because there’s no way the sixers won fewer than nine games a year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 pack it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 15 minutes ago, catcheryea said: pack it up Killian SZN baby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 3 hours ago, catcheryea said: pack it up I hear Joe Harris' music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 3 hours ago, catcheryea said: pack it up Solid, get to start the year down a starter and a bunch of depth for a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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