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dll2000

What would you have done different?

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Below is what I would have done different from Bears.  I'm not going to go deep into draft, because I haven't looked at that many guys. 

My draft class through 2 in 2018 would have been very similar to Bears, but instead of Smith I would have Edmunds and Landry.  

1.  Tremaine Edmunds - I love Roquan Smith, but give me the fast, huge monster with the high ceiling over the smaller stud.  

2. Harold Landry - Bends likes rubber and super fast first step.  Better than any edge rusher Bears have and 2nd best edge rusher in the draft.  Medicals may have pushed me away too.  Who knows.

3. James Daniels.  Already a thread on him. 

4. Anthony Miller. Ditto.  I think Oliver is/was the better value at this slot, but Miller fills a greater need.  

 Let me start by saying I really like Bears first 3 picks.  I think Roquan Smith was one of 5 or 6 best players in draft and I think Daniels is arguably best center in draft even though Bears said they are playing him at guard.  Miller was my favorite receiver after Calvin Ridley so I am happy with that pick too. 

Here is how I got there: 

3 teams traded up all around Bears.  I would have made a deal with one of those teams.  I said from start if forced to pick at 8 I would take Edmunds, but I wanted to trade down for Landry and pick up extra picks.  Hard to know what deal I could have made not being in a war room.  I am going to assume same thing as what other teams actually did.  I also know there is a butterfly effect when I do something different.  None of this matters anyway so calm down.

I would have made the Buffalo trade down because I would have took the first one I could since it was my plan from the start.   This is assuming of course I could have, but this is fantasy land at this point anyway.     I think it is an okay assumption.  TB was not going to pick a QB and Buffalo could have got their QB one slot cheaper by dealing with me.  I trump them.   Only way TB wins is if they scare Buf into thinking someone else is looking to trade ahead of them and that team covets Allen and not Rosen.

So in my fantasy world I now have 12, 53 and 56.

 Plan in my head right at time of trade is to take Landry at 12.  However, when my pick comes at 12 low and behold Edmunds is still on the board.  I take Tremaine Edmunds at 12.

Draft is going along and nobody is taking Landry because of medicals.   I am still looking to trade back into late first to get Landry.  I'm not giving up a 1.

For this scenario I am stuck with teams that actually made trades.   I am offering 53 and 56 and nobody wants them for their first as they all got better deals.  

Low and behold Landry falls to me at 39 without me giving up picks.  Its my lucky day.  I take Harold Landry at 39.  

 I said on the thread after first round I wanted Landry, Hernandez or Oliver with Bears at 39.  However, once we get Landry I really want Daniels to fix the interior of the line and corner is not as dire.   Daniels and Oliver are comparable talents.  

I make trade Titans made, except I take Daniels rather than Landry at 49.  I give up 53 and 56 - that is much more than Titans gave up to move there.  So it is realistic that they would jump at that.  We can't know if Daniels would have lasted another couple picks, but I think he would have.  Cowboys may have been next team to take him, but they wanted a player to be able to play tackle or guard.  

Now we are back in reality.  I take Miller same as Bears with same deal.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dll2000
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1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Below is what I would have done different from Bears.  I'm not going to go deep into draft, because I haven't looked at that many guys. 

My draft class through 2 in 2018 would have been very similar to Bears, but instead of Smith I would have Edmunds and Landry.  

1.  Tremaine Edmunds - I love Roquan Smith, but give me the fast, huge monster with the high ceiling over the smaller stud.  

2. Harold Landry - Bends likes rubber and super fast first step.  Better than any edge rusher Bears have and 2nd best edge rusher in the draft.  Medicals may have pushed me away too.  Who knows.

3. James Daniels.  Already a thread on him. 

4. Anthony Miller. Ditto.  I think Oliver is/was the better value at this slot, but Miller fills a greater need.  

 Let me start by saying I really like Bears first 3 picks.  I think Roquan Smith was one of 5 or 6 best players in draft and I think Daniels is arguably best center in draft even though Bears said they are playing him at guard.  Miller was my favorite receiver after Calvin Ridley so I am happy with that pick too. 

Here is how I got there: 

3 teams traded up all around Bears.  I would have made a deal with one of those teams.  I said from start if forced to pick at 8 I would take Edmunds, but I wanted to trade down for Landry and pick up extra picks.  Hard to know what deal I could have made not being in a war room.  I am going to assume same thing as what other teams actually did.  I also know there is a butterfly effect when I do something different.  None of this matters anyway so calm down.

I would have made the Buffalo trade down because I would have took the first one I could since it was my plan from the start.   This is assuming of course I could have, but this is fantasy land at this point anyway.     I think it is an okay assumption.  TB was not going to pick a QB and Buffalo could have got their QB one slot cheaper by dealing with me.  I trump them.   Only way TB wins is if they scare Buf into thinking someone else is looking to trade ahead of them and that team covets Allen and not Rosen.

So in my fantasy world I now have 12, 53 and 56.

 Plan in my head right at time of trade is to take Landry at 12.  However, when my pick comes at 12 low and behold Edmunds is still on the board.  I take Tremaine Edmunds at 12.

Draft is going along and nobody is taking Landry because of medicals.   I am still looking to trade back into late first to get Landry.  I'm not giving up a 1.

For this scenario I am stuck with teams that actually made trades.   I am offering 53 and 56 and nobody wants them for their first as they all got better deals.  

Low and behold Landry falls to me at 39 without me giving up picks.  Its my lucky day.  I take Harold Landry at 39.  

 I said on the thread after first round I wanted Landry, Hernandez or Oliver with Bears at 39.  However, once we get Landry I really want Daniels to fix the interior of the line and corner is not as dire.   Daniels and Oliver are comparable talents.  

I make trade Titans made, except I take Daniels rather than Landry at 49.  I give up 53 and 56 - that is much more than Titans gave up to move there.  So it is realistic that they would jump at that.  We can't know if Daniels would have lasted another couple picks, but I think he would have.  Cowboys may have been next team to take him, but they wanted a player to be able to play tackle or guard.  

Now we are back in reality.  I take Miller same as Bears with same deal.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't have had a problem if the Bears took Edmunds. The only problem i have with Edmunds is that it seems he lacks instincts. He is more of a reactor. There is no doubt that if reaches his potential ceiling that he could be better then Smith. Smith has instincts that are amazing. The only negative i see on Smith is that in Rose Bowl game in the first half Oklahoma got their big men on him on about 4 or 5 plays. Smith has a high ceiling because of his instincts and speed.

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18 minutes ago, TB 1 said:

I wouldn't have had a problem if the Bears took Edmunds. The only problem i have with Edmunds is that it seems he lacks instincts. He is more of a reactor. There is no doubt that if reaches his potential ceiling that he could be better then Smith. Smith has instincts that are amazing. The only negative i see on Smith is that in Rose Bowl game in the first half Oklahoma got their big men on him on about 4 or 5 plays. Smith has a high ceiling because of his instincts and speed.

I agree with you about Smith.

I think knock on Edmunds instincts is overblown because NFL plays mostly single back football where QB doesn't run.  I lot of games Edmunds played were against double or triple option teams with a running QB.

When you play a triple option team with a running QB you usually are forced to play assignment football.  That means you focus on a guy whether he has ball or not.  It can make anyone look stupid.  It doesn't mean he had bad instincts.  

NFL just recently started playing run pass options brought in with Chip Kelly, but run option of RPO is almost never the QB runs.  In college and high school the run is usually the QB which spread defense one man thinner and is much harder to defend.

He can run sideline to sideline and cover and he has arms down to his knees on a 6-5 frame.  He can literally rake people in from far away.  I think Smith would be better player in 2018, but I think in future Edmunds would have been better on that Bears defense with that staff teaching him.

 

 

 

 

 

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8)Roquan Smith

39)Courtland Sutton

51)Derrius Guice

115)Maurice Hurst

145)Ogbonnia Okoronkwo

181)Azeem Victor

224)Tavarus McFadden

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I have thought a lot about our draft based on if we had not cut Sitton and either tendered Meredith or matched the Saints' offer to him.  In this scenario we have not diminished the talent level and don't have the need for G annd WR like we would have.  It could be argued that even with Sitton we would need more line depth and that even with Meredith we needed a differernt type of receiver.  

I was a big fan of Harold Landry, hoping that we could trade back and pick him between 14-22, somewhere in that range.  Having taken Roquan at 8, I never expected Landry to be on the board at 39.  I would have taken Landry there, as we don't have the need for a starting G/C right now.  We also don't have to trade next year's second and a fourth to go get Miller.  

So it's either:

Sitton, Meredith, Landry, 2019 2nd, 2018 4th

or

Daniels, Miller

It kind of looks lop sided when listed that way, but this is why I was a little put off about reducing the overall talent on the roster by dropping two starters.  

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Here are the draft classes in the real time game I put up -

Sugashane's Draft Class

1. OLB - Marcus Davenort

2a. OLB - Harold Landry

2b. C - James Daniels

4. RT - Will Richardson

Traded our 5th No. 156 and No. 226 from the Broncos

5. [156] - WR - Equanimeous St Brown

6. QB - Alex McGough

7a. WR Marcell Ateman

7b. [226] - OL - Jordan Mailata

*** I would have also matched the offer on Meredith that NO offered.

In FA I was pushing for 1-2 bigger one year prove it deals (like Sheldon Richardson and Mathieu got specifically - If I got the Honey Badger then Amukamara would not have been needed to be re-signed), I also said I'd offer a 2018 2nd and 2019 4th for Marcus Peters before the compensation for him was released, so pretty safe to say that beats the 2018 fourth-round pick, 2019 second-round pick that KC got for him too, so this draft would have been pretty drastically different too. Likely something like Arizona's  first and second rounders in, rather than them waiting and giving their first-, third-, and fifth-round selections (15th, 79th, and 152nd) for BUF's pick at 10 or BUF's first and second to move up to 8. 

Seeing either of Peters/Fuller/Mathieu or Peters/Fuller/Amukamara  stroll out together would have made me VERY happy.

 

MadMike's Draft Class

1. ILB - Roquan Smith

2a. C/G - James Daniels

2b. CB - Isiah Oliver

4. OLB - Dorance Armstrong

5. WR - Deon Cain

6. CB - Tony Brown

7. DT - Trenton Thompson

 

 

ColGerBear's Draft Class

Trade 1[8] for 1[15], [79], and [152]

1. CB - Isiah Oliver

2. OLB - Landry

3. RT - Martinas Rankin

4a. [105] ILB- Josey Jewell (CGB didn’t trade with the Pats)

4b. [115] OLB/DE - Josh Sweat

5.  DT - Bilal Nichols

6. DE - Kylie Fitts

7. WR - Javon Wims

 

 

G08

1. OLB - Marcus Davenport

2a. OLB - Harold Landry

2b. WR - Anthony Miller

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On 4/29/2018 at 7:19 PM, dll2000 said:

Tremaine Edmunds - I love Roquan Smith, but give me the fast, huge monster with the high ceiling over the smaller stud.  

Everyone pretty much looked at Edmunds as a pass rusher first, though. The Bears wanted a pure MLB kinda guy. I agree with your inclination to go with a pass rusher, but don't know why Edmunds would be a superior choice to Davenport...

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I would have taken Kalen Ballage over Iggy in the 4th. Them NOT taking a RB tells me they’re confident that Howard will be a good fit, but Ballage’s skill set is made for this offense and I have significant concerns about the ability of Cohen and Cunningham to carry the weight of Howard were to miss significant time. 

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On 4/29/2018 at 7:19 PM, dll2000 said:

1.  Tremaine Edmunds - I love Roquan Smith, but give me the fast, huge monster with the high ceiling over the smaller stud.  

I dont really understand this logic. When has this ever worked....like when has picking athletic upside worked out more than picking the better football player??

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8 minutes ago, MonserinNC said:

I dont really understand this logic. When has this ever worked....like when has picking athletic upside worked out more than picking the better football player??

There are occasions where it has worked, but I absolutely disagree with his assessment that all of that gives Edmunds a higher ceiling. 

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15 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

There are occasions where it has worked, but I absolutely disagree with his assessment that all of that gives Edmunds a higher ceiling. 

I hear this every year around draft time but I literally cant ever remember when taking a flier on an athlete has worked out better than the best football player.

Like there are guys like Julio Jones who were the best athlete but also the best actual receiver. But thats all I can really think of.

Even in late rounds, most "steals" end up being skilled guys who dont have measurables. Not athletes that dont have skill. I guess Sherman would be an athlete who got coached but up but thats kind of the only one I can think of.

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58 minutes ago, MonserinNC said:

I hear this every year around draft time but I literally cant ever remember when taking a flier on an athlete has worked out better than the best football player.

Like there are guys like Julio Jones who were the best athlete but also the best actual receiver. But thats all I can really think of.

Even in late rounds, most "steals" end up being skilled guys who dont have measurables. Not athletes that dont have skill. I guess Sherman would be an athlete who got coached but up but thats kind of the only one I can think of.

The only guy I can think of besides the two you mentioned would be Kyle Long, who was merely an athlete who had good blood lines. Otherwise, you're absolutely correct.

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Edmunds is a great football player too. He was Butkus finalist.  Not like those cases where guy has measurables, but cant play.  Roquan is special, but you generally take big, fast and good over small, fast and good.  There are advantages to being an athletic freak and make no bones that is what Edmunds is   I dont even know what his measurables are aside from height and weight, but I can see it on field   

Odds are Rowuan will be better, but IMO as an inside backer Edmunds has highest ceiling of any prospect I have ever seen.  Worth the gamble.

And there are 1000s of instances where a great college player didnt succeed in NFL because he lacked measurables.

Doesnt matter now I've moved on.  Roquan is my guy.  

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2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Edmunds is a great football player too. He was Butkus finalist.  Not like those cases where guy has measurables, but cant play.  Roquan is special, but you generally take big, fast and good over small, fast and good.  There are advantages to being an athletic freak and make no bones that is what Edmunds is   I dont even know what his measurables are aside from height and weight, but I can see it on field   

Odds are Rowuan will be better, but IMO as an inside backer Edmunds has highest ceiling of any prospect I have ever seen.  Worth the gamble.

And there are 1000s of instances where a great college player didnt succeed in NFL because he lacked measurables.

Doesnt matter now I've moved on.  Roquan is my guy.  

But the one thing you need from an ILB, or any position really, are instincts, and Roquan’s got maybe the best I’ve seen at that position. This, consequently, is where Edmunds struggles. The good news for him and the Bills is that he’s young and perhaps those will develop as he does, but Smith’s are absurd right now.

If possible, go back and watch the Georgia/Oklahoma playoff game. Smith is the best player on that field and it’s not even close. Then again he’s very noticeable in every Georgia game, so pick one and enjoy

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6 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

The only guy I can think of besides the two you mentioned would be Kyle Long, who was merely an athlete who had good blood lines. Otherwise, you're absolutely correct.

Devin Hester... The guy literally had no real position, went from CB/RET to WR/RET, and will walk to the HoF.

Will Fuller was often cited as closer to Ted Ginn than Desean Jackson, he has done well.

Myles Jack was a guy without a true position pre-draft and was great last year

Depending on how loose an interpretation of taking an athlete, Vic Beasely was a freak athlete who needed coaching. He was a RB turned EDGE who had very limited moves, I don't think he had a countermove and people said he was either lazy or didn't have the right motor IIRC

Ngakoue was a developmental athlete who burst onto the scene.

Shaq Thompson was a positionless player who seems to have the arrow pointing up.

Telvin Smith has been a massive success, who was drafted on his athleticism more than proven talents.

 

I'm sure there are many more, but there is no denying that a person has to be a true football player as well. You get an athlete with a great work ethic (Hester or Smith) around a coach who is able to develop and drive them (Toub and Bradley/Babich for Smith) and you can get something special. Still, you're not just turning any athlete into something special, otherwise Terron Beckham would have been the second coming of Sweetness with his athletic gifts.

 

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