DeShone Kizer

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So sounds like the best QB prospect we've had in here since Aaron.

We got him for a massivley unreliable, soft DB.

I still fail to see everyone's issue with this trade.

If we're relaying every player in their most negative light, "Consistently terrible, and throws very few TDs but a ****-ton of interceptions" is signifcantly worse than "massively unreliable and soft".

Though I thought you might be bright enough to not fall for the soft label that dumbasses kept trying to put on Randall. 

The issue with the trade is that we gave up our best CB last year for (and this is the best case scenario) an upgrade at backup QB and the right to agonize over what to sign a guy just as he's hitting Free Agency. 

[Leader]

8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Since you're so good at the dictionary, go look up what a "small sample size", thank god we were able to pull one example from 20 years ago. 

List of guys who have led the league in INT% since the turn of the decade:

2017: Deshone Kizer

2016: Ryan Fitzpatrick

2015: Zombie Peyton Manning

2014: Josh McCown

2013: Eli Manning

2012: Matt Cassell

2011: Josh Skelton

2010: Zombie Brett Favre

That is a grisly *** list.

Only observation I'll make about your list is Kizer is the only one represented who's a 1st year starter as a rookie on a pretty bad team. The others are well into their careers. Does that mean he'll turn it around? Dont know cant say - but this comparison isnt exactly apples to apples IMO.

 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

If we're relaying every player in their most negative light, "Consistently terrible, and throws very few TDs but a ****-ton of interceptions" is signifcantly worse than "massively unreliable and soft".

Though I thought you might be bright enough to not fall for the soft label that dumbasses kept trying to put on Randall. 

The issue with the trade is that we gave up our best CB last year for (and this is the best case scenario) an upgrade at backup QB and the right to agonize over what to sign a guy just as he's hitting Free Agency. 

Most negative light? I just described Damarious Randall as who he is. First 8 games of his rookie year he was awesome. Last 8 he hit a rookie wall and was bad. Year two was a disaster, year 3 started off like year 1 ended and ended like year 1 started. What can you reasonably expect from him this year? He is the very definition of unreliable.

And yes, he is soft, guys like HHCD pretty much came out and said so. I'll trust that locker room over you. It's been widely reported that he could've played the last two weeks of last season. No one on that defense said anything when he got traded. He was a guy in that locker room the vets wanted gone. Guess the "dumbasses" include our actual players too then huh?

[Packerraymond]

12 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Since you're so good at the dictionary, go look up what a "small sample size", thank god we were able to pull one example from 20 years ago. 

List of guys who have led the league in INT% since the turn of the decade:

2017: Deshone Kizer

2016: Ryan Fitzpatrick

2015: Zombie Peyton Manning

2014: Josh McCown

2013: Eli Manning

2012: Matt Cassell

2011: Josh Skelton

2010: Zombie Brett Favre

That is a grisly *** list.

All this list shows me is that component organizations have plans to throw an old backup type to the wolves rather than a 1st year high draft pick. The Browns were not a component organization. 

[Mox]

I'm not falling for the "he's on my team now he must have potential" trap. DeShone Kizer is likely to be an awful QB his entire career but excuses will continue to be made until we cut him.

[TransientTexan]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Guess the "dumbasses" include our actual players too then huh?

Why couldn't it? Just because someone is athletic, or has good coordination, or is big/fast/strong enough to play in the league doesn't mean they know anything about evaluating others, whether it's other players or coaches & FO. Not saying that means they're wrong. But it doesn't mean they're right either. 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

Most negative light? I just described Damarious Randall as who he is. First 8 games of his rookie year he was awesome. Last 8 he hit a rookie wall and was bad. Year two was a disaster, year 3 started off like year 1 ended and ended like year 1 started. What can you reasonably expect from him this year? He is the very definition of unreliable.

And yes, he is soft, guys like HHCD pretty much came out and said so. I'll trust that locker room over you. It's been widely reported that he could've played the last two weeks of last season. No one on that defense said anything when he got traded. He was a guy in that locker room the vets wanted gone. Guess the "dumbasses" include our actual players too then huh?

And Deshone Kizer was terrible for all 16 games he played in. What's your point?

There were a whole bunch of guys sitting out those last two weeks. Let me know who I can label as soft among Nelson, Adams, Rodgers, Rodgers, Evans, and Jones?

HaHa Clinton-Dix has no right to be calling anyone soft or calling out effort on the last two weeks, unless your TV was off when those two games were being played. He might not have sat out but he came as close to sitting out as somebody can while still being on the field. 

[Golfman]

22 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

 

2017: Deshone Kizer

2016: Ryan Fitzpatrick

2015: Zombie Peyton Manning

2014: Josh McCown

2013: Eli Manning

2012: Matt Cassell

2011: Josh Skelton

2010: Zombie Brett Favre

That is a grisly *** list.

I agree, there are only 3 first ballot Hall of Fame QB's on it. 

Seriously, how about we let this play out and see if this kid can develop. I'll say it again, for anyone to predict certain all-pro play or sure fire bust from Kizer is too invested in their theory to be objective in any way.  

History has shown the sample size to be too small to make a final determination on a 21 year-old, rookie QB forced into action. Especially one who only played 2 years of college football. The Browns wanted to let him sit for a year. That didn't happen. 

You seem determined to have the last word on this, so I'll let you continue. I have no more interest in debating this with you. You aren't coming off of your position regarding Kizer. 

My last question is this however, will you be rooting for him if he plays? 

Take care! 

[Leader]

Apparently the locker room wanted DR gone - or werent broken up when he was shipped out. Come on guys, their opinion has to count for something no?

[Blink]

Randall was soft, he spent a good long time on the injury report and multiple times shied away from tackling.

 

Can someone point to any metrics proving Randall was anything but well below average for his career?  This seems like the classic case of fans just looking to be mad about something.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Leader said:

Apparently the locker room wanted DR gone - or werent broken up when he was shipped out. Come on guys, their opinion has to count for something no?

Depends, and we're really reading into guys' feelings here. You can look at the lack of tweets as wanting to be rid of the guy, or you can look at the lack of tweets as not wanting to step on toes of the new management structure. Or you could look at it as NFL players just don't always find the departure of average players as all that noticeable because it happens with such frequency in the offseason. 

[Leader]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

Depends, and we're really reading into guys' feelings here. You can look at the lack of tweets as wanting to be rid of the guy, or you can look at the lack of tweets as not wanting to step on toes of the new management structure. Or you could look at it as NFL players just don't always find the departure of average players as all that noticeable because it happens with such frequency in the offseason. 

True. Nothing definitive can be determined - except - more than any player of recent history (or that I can recall at least.....) this guy got on the wrong side of the players AND the organization. He certainly wasnt TO bad - but there was simply too much reporting - from disparate origins - not to believe (as a composite) it represented the truth - that DR was on the outs.

[blankman0021]

4 hours ago, Blink said:

I guess I don’t understand all the fuss about trading Randall.

His contract is up after this year, if the front office knows they have no plans of re-signing him then why turn down an offer to get a pretty highly regarded QB prospect and move up in the draft?  Even if he was converted to safety this year, I doubt that he would transition fast enough to take snaps away from any of the top three guys at the moment.  Then, either way he performed would you be willing to give him a decent contract based off of one limited season?

Randall flat out wasn’t good enough at corner, and given the short time frame there wasn’t a realistic opportunity to switch him to safety before his contract was up.  I highly doubt he will be very successful because I think his biggest weaknesses will be even more exposed at safety(run support, fragility, and mental errors).

 

I have no idea if Kizer will be any good, but I’m not going to judge the guy after one year on the worst franchise in sports under who’s widely regarded as the worst coach in football by far.  Everyone knew he was a project that needed a few years tuning, it was unfair to throw him to the wolves so early and then be thrown under the bus by his coach.

About time for some people to get over Randall losing.  He wasn’t going to be given a new contract, there’s really no reason to fret about getting something in return for him.

Agree on the reason to move Randall. But he was a Safety at Arizona. Doubt the learning curve would be that high even though he had 3 years at CB for GB.

[Packerraymond]

8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

And Deshone Kizer was terrible for all 16 games he played in. What's your point?

There were a whole bunch of guys sitting out those last two weeks. Let me know who I can label as soft among Nelson, Adams, Rodgers, Rodgers, Evans, and Jones?

HaHa Clinton-Dix has no right to be calling anyone soft or calling out effort on the last two weeks, unless your TV was off when those two games were being played. He might not have sat out but he came as close to sitting out as somebody can while still being on the field. 

If Kizer is still as unreliable in year three I'll agree with you, to write him off now just seems dumb but you've seemed to write off our entire 2017 class already so I'm not surprised.

Yet the only guy you laughably seem to be fond of was probably the most unreliable guy on the team who no one on the coaching staff nor in the locker room was really a fan of. A guy who was often hurt, inconsistent and had a bad attitude.

Nelson, Adams and Rodgers can sit out because they're stars. Something Damarious thinks he is, but never was. They play by different rules.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

10 minutes ago, Blink said:

Randall was soft, he spent a good long time on the injury report and multiple times shied away from tackling.

 

Can someone point to any metrics proving Randall was anything but well below average for his career?  This seems like the classic case of fans just looking to be mad about something.

 

Randall played through a ton of injuries as a Packer. Probably would've been higher regarded by fans if he'd just stayed down a few games.