DeShone Kizer

[Packerraymond]

8 hours ago, packfanfb said:

The thing I'm going to miss most about Randall  (and why I don't love the trade) is because Randall basically personified me as a fan lol. Randall called out Dom's bull**** defense and the lack of accountability overall on that side of the ball, and MM didnt like that Randall was saying mean things about the guy that MM went to bat for year after year after year. But he was right, and he was traded for it.

That guy was HHCD. Randall whined about it and was called out by his teammates and coach because in order to get the privilege of complaining about something you have to put in the work to show it doesn't work.

I don't know anything about his practice of film habits but when guys in our locker room are complaining about other guys not all in, and HHCD is out there saying guys are just playing for the Pro Bowl and new contracts it's pretty obvious Randall was one of the culprits they're talking about. NFL announced the Pro Bowl rosters around Dec 20, coincidentally the same time Randall shut it down.

If you're not one of the guys busting your *** to make it work, you don't get to complain about it not working. That's why Randall is gone, not cause he mad MM mad, seems like he made everyone mad.

[Reaper]

31 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said:

I doubt McCarthy did that to gain leverage  over the contract, he was just asked a question about Kizer.

I tend to agree with what MM said in his presser about Kizer. If and its a BIG if he had returned to school like Brian Kelly said he should have, he would have had a very good year throwing to St. Brown and I believe their Tight end was pretty good as well. They had a nice oline and good running game he would have produced, Notre Dame won 10 games without him if they had him it may not have changed that total but he would have been the guy everyone talked about. I don't think its unreasonable to think he would be in the conversation with the 5 qbs taken early. I think we kind o lose sight of the fact that none of these qb as far as I have heard is considered to be the "Perfect" prospect, this allows other QB with the tools to be in the conversation.

I do think Kizer has a lot to work on to become anything more than a backup but at least here its presumed he has time to get that done. I never got too excited about Randall, his picks seem like they all came because he was out of position and their was a bad throw or tipped ball, I know that shows his hand/ball skills but Id rather he be in position on a regular basis.

[St Vince]

1 hour ago, Chili said:

I honestly think the sudden praise on Kizer's "talent" has more to do with gaining leverage over Rodgers in the contract negotiations. I think they're trying to drive the price down a bit.

My thoughts exactly. Rodgers agent must be asking for the moon, shouldn't be any reason this deal isn't done by now unless Rodgers is butthurt over not having say In front office matters or them bringing in Kizer for leverage or him just being plain greedy. personally I'd now wait, Rodgers has no leverage, we control him for 4 years. if Rodgers wants to be the highest paid ever at 35 he's got to first prove he can still throw with all that hardware holding that bone together. Wait until week 8 to give him his deal that way you have a half a season to evaluate if he's the pre injury Rodgers. Giving him all that guaranteed money and not seeing him throw a football is risky. If he's not the same you're paying a guy all that money based on past production. Also by waiting you'll also be able to evaluate what you have in Kizer if you are forced to move in that direction. And last, say if Rodgers returns back to true form I'd grab him and tell him he has to modify his playing style. No more holding the ball, no more scramble drills. You must conform to being a pure pocket passer like Brees and Brady. No more excuses, you have speed guys who can separate, you have bigger targets with larger wingspans, the windows will be bigger. If they give him all that money and he still runs around holding the football putting his health at risk I will be highly upset. Gute got Rodgers some good weapons shouldn't be any excuses for him not getting the football out his hands.

 

 

[Ketchup]

5 minutes ago, St Vince said:

My thoughts exactly. Rodgers agent must be asking for the moon, shouldn't be any reason this deal isn't done by now unless Rodgers is butthurt over not having say In front office matters or them bringing in Kizer for leverage or him just being plain greedy. personally I'd now wait, Rodgers has no leverage, we control him for 4 years. if Rodgers wants to be the highest paid ever at 35 he's got to first prove he can still throw with all that hardware holding that bone together. Wait until week 8 to give him his deal that way you have a half a season to evaluate if he's the pre injury Rodgers. Giving him all that guaranteed money and not seeing him throw a football is risky. If he's not the same you're paying a guy all that money based on past production. Also by waiting you'll also be able to evaluate what you have in Kizer if you are forced to move in that direction. And last, say if Rodgers returns back to true form I'd grab him and tell him he has to modify his playing style. No more holding the ball, no more scramble drills. You must conform to being a pure pocket passer like Brees and Brady. No more excuses, you have speed guys who can separate, you have bigger targets with larger wingspans, the windows will be bigger. If they give him all that money and he still runs around holding the football putting his health at risk I will be highly upset. Gute got Rodgers some good weapons shouldn't be any excuses for him not getting the football out his hands.

 

 

I’m sure glad you aren’t our GM. A whole lot of assumptions with no evidence. The only reports we have of why Rodgers and the Packers haven’t gotten a deal done is because they were waiting on the Ryan contract. Now that that’s done, Rodgers will get done here in short order. This is a non issue. 

[StinkySauce]

2 hours ago, Chili said:

I honestly think the sudden praise on Kizer's "talent" has more to do with gaining leverage over Rodgers in the contract negotiations. I think they're trying to drive the price down a bit.

It really isn't possible to gain leverage over Rodgers in the contract negotiations.  If he's healthy, he will be the highest paid QB in league history . . . with the Packers or with another team.  Unless Rodgers can't imagine spending his winters outside of Green Bay, there is no leverage.

[OneTwoSixFive]

@St Vince

It really is very simple. the better the player, the less leverage you have. The Packers will be paying Rodgers something like $32m pa, not because they want to,  but because that is his value in todays market. The Packers DO NOT control Rodgers for four years. He could 'retire' any time if he got annoyed enough with the Packers. Your controlling ideas might have some short-term success on a less stellar player, not with AR, and especially not with how the team played in his absence last year..

Emotional phrases you used like 'greedy', 'butthurt', 'asking for the moon' are more indicative of your own prejudicies, than reality. It is almost impossible to impose your will on a player of that calibre by being adversarial. You do it by persuasion, by getting him onside and buying into your vision. Your take seems to be that you want to punish him. If you are talking about negotiating a massive deal (and it will be), it stands to reason it will take time to sort out the endless details that a mega-contract requires. If it doesn't happen in your personal timeframe, that is irrelevant. In any deal, especially a big one, it takes two to tango.

As a final point, you can bet the house that the Packers have every scrap of detail on his collarbone recovery prognosis - you don't offer a huge contract without looking into stuff like this.

[Dubz41]

12 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

@St Vince

It really is very simple. the better the player, the less leverage you have. The Packers will be paying Rodgers something like $32m pa, not because they want to,  but because that is his value in todays market. The Packers DO NOT control Rodgers for four years. He could 'retire' any time if he got annoyed enough with the Packers. Your controlling ideas might have some short-term success on a less stellar player, not with AR, and especially not with how the team played in his absence last year..

Emotional phrases you used like 'greedy', 'butthurt', 'asking for the moon' are more indicative of your own prejudicies, than reality. It is almost impossible to impose your will on a player of that calibre by being adversarial. You do it by persuasion, by getting him onside and buying into your vision. Your take seems to be that you want to punish him. If you are talking about negotiating a massive deal (and it will be), it stands to reason it will take time to sort out the endless details that a mega-contract requires. If it doesn't happen in your personal timeframe, that is irrelevant. In any deal, especially a big one, it takes two to tango.

As a final point, you can bet the house that the Packers have every scrap of detail on his collarbone recovery prognosis - you don't offer a huge contract without looking into stuff like this.

This times 10.

This contract is more of a marriage than pure business.  You want to piss off the bride? This is not the time for a 'shotgun' wedding. Both sides are carefully negotiating.  It's not easy when everyone in the league is watching. Those who think the Kizer comments have any leverage at all is laughable. Those who think we have 'control' of Rodgers for four years are even funnier.  The guy is smart and has so many other opportunities available that he really doesn't need this gig if it really comes down to it.  He loves football, it's made him a household name.  He is simply the best QB we've ever seen play.  This will get done soon as long as the Packers don't f*** it up.

[SSG]

3 hours ago, Chili said:

I honestly think the sudden praise on Kizer's "talent" has more to do with gaining leverage over Rodgers in the contract negotiations. I think they're trying to drive the price down a bit.

Don't see how it gains any sort of leverage over AR12's contract situation.  The market has already been set, I doubt Rodgers is going to want to take a pay cut because we added a bad, 3rd string caliber QB.  Kizer still has to show he's a better QB than Hundley, which I think will be a struggle for him.

McCarthy had this same sort of glaring review for Hundley at this time last year. 

[Green19]

Why do people think GB holds no leverage over Rodgers? Green Bay controls him for the next 4 years using the franchise tag. That would make him what 38/39 when GB’s control runs out.

All Rodgers can do is with hold services. But still... if Rodgers wants to play it’s going to be in GB the next 4 years. Dude has no leverage, sans holding out.

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Green19 said:

Why do people think GB holds no leverage over Rodgers? Green Bay controls him for the next 4 years using the franchise tag. That would make him what 38/39 when GB’s control runs out.

All Rodgers can do is with hold services. But still... if Rodgers wants to play it’s going to be in GB the next 4 years. Dude has no leverage, sans holding out.

He holds tons of leverage, if GB can't treat the best QB in NFL history right, who in the hell is going to want to play here? Both inside and outside the organization. 

This is all irrelevant anyway. Rodgers is getting a new deal before camp, James Jones pretty much said so, and he said he was told he's breaking the news. All Rodgers was waiting for was Ryan, I'd be surprised if it isn't done before Memorial Day.

You don't string along generational talent unless going back to being NFLs "Siberia" is your intention. Luckily Gute is smart enough to know this.

[Leader]

10 minutes ago, SSG said:

Don't see how it gains any sort of leverage over AR12's contract situation.  The market has already been set, I doubt Rodgers is going to want to take a pay cut because we added a bad, 3rd string caliber QB.  Kizer still has to show he's a better QB than Hundley, which I think will be a struggle for him. McCarthy had this same sort of glaring review for Hundley at this time last year. 

Exactly. Kizer's situation offers no "leverage" over AR. None. The concept is silly on a number of fronts.

Pay the guy the market rate - he's entitled to get the market rate - he's earned it.

[Leader]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

He holds tons of leverage, if GB can't treat the best QB in NFL history right, who in the hell is going to want to play here? Both inside and outside the organization. This is all irrelevant anyway. Rodgers is getting a new deal before camp, James Jones pretty much said so, and he said he was told he's breaking the news. All Rodgers was waiting for was Ryan, I'd be surprised if it isn't done before Memorial Day. You don't string along generational talent unless going back to being NFLs "Siberia" is your intention. Luckily Gute is smart enough to know this.

This is exactly right as well.

[Norm]

2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

That guy was HHCD. Randall whined about it and was called out by his teammates and coach because in order to get the privilege of complaining about something you have to put in the work to show it doesn't work.

I don't know anything about his practice of film habits but when guys in our locker room are complaining about other guys not all in, and HHCD is out there saying guys are just playing for the Pro Bowl and new contracts it's pretty obvious Randall was one of the culprits they're talking about. NFL announced the Pro Bowl rosters around Dec 20, coincidentally the same time Randall shut it down.

If you're not one of the guys busting your *** to make it work, you don't get to complain about it not working. That's why Randall is gone, not cause he mad MM mad, seems like he made everyone mad.

Mike Daniels farewell tweet praised Randall's off season work FWIW. 

[pollino14]

Deshone Kizer is not in any way leverage over Rodgers. 

[SSG]

2 hours ago, St Vince said:

My thoughts exactly. Rodgers agent must be asking for the moon, shouldn't be any reason this deal isn't done by now unless Rodgers is butthurt over not having say In front office matters or them bringing in Kizer for leverage or him just being plain greedy. personally I'd now wait, Rodgers has no leverage, we control him for 4 years. if Rodgers wants to be the highest paid ever at 35 he's got to first prove he can still throw with all that hardware holding that bone together. Wait until week 8 to give him his deal that way you have a half a season to evaluate if he's the pre injury Rodgers. Giving him all that guaranteed money and not seeing him throw a football is risky. If he's not the same you're paying a guy all that money based on past production. Also by waiting you'll also be able to evaluate what you have in Kizer if you are forced to move in that direction. And last, say if Rodgers returns back to true form I'd grab him and tell him he has to modify his playing style. No more holding the ball, no more scramble drills. You must conform to being a pure pocket passer like Brees and Brady. No more excuses, you have speed guys who can separate, you have bigger targets with larger wingspans, the windows will be bigger. If they give him all that money and he still runs around holding the football putting his health at risk I will be highly upset. Gute got Rodgers some good weapons shouldn't be any excuses for him not getting the football out his hands.

 

 

Kizer was a historically bad QB last year.  How is bringing in the worst starting QB in the NFL providing any leverage? 

One of the things that makes  Aaron Rodgers special is his scrambling.  To take that away and handcuff him into being only a pocket guy would be a terrible decision.  We want AR12 at his best, not a guy who's handcuffed into using only a portion of his tools. 

Gute added three day 3 WRs in one of the worst WR drafts in recent memory.  Lets not get out of hand and assume that they are stars.  I'd argue that there is less offensive talent on the roster right now than there was at this time last year. Jordy was coming off one of his best seasons as a pro with 97 catches, 1250 yards and 14 TDs.  Adams had his best season as a pro with 75 catches for just under 1000 yards receiving and 14 TDs.  Cobb, while not earning his contract, had 60 catches for 600 yards and 4 TDs.  We also added Martellus Bennett who was supposed to be one of the best 2 way TEs in the NFL and fresh off a very productive season.