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Most complete back in NFL history


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15 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

Apprantley Sanders wasn't that good as a receiver, and had lackluster hands. Which is why he wasn't thrown to much in Detroit. His former teammate Erik Krammer said that there is a reason you don't see many highlights of him as a receiver. Not his wheelhouse. 

They didn’t throw to him a lot because they were either running, or throwing to Herman Moore. Their receivers actually had hands. Just never had a QB that could get it to them.

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7 minutes ago, MrDrew said:

They didn’t throw to him a lot because they were either running, or throwing to Herman Moore. Their receivers actually had hands. Just never had a QB that could get it to them.

Yup. Herman Moore and Brett Perriman both put up 100+ catch seasons in that offense - the Lions played a lot of four wide back then (the silver stretch) and Lions QBs had different options before going to Barry in the flat.

Even with an offense with four wide on every down, Sanders was still usually 3rd on the team in receptions...

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8 hours ago, cddolphin said:

When I think "complete back" I think effective runner + pass catcher, how they do it is secondary. LT had 9 seasons with 50+ receptions on top of his running acumen.

Yah that's kind of the point

So if someone said when LT was 23 years old that it's possible he'll be in the running in a few years, people should have scoffed at them? This is Football's Future, not Football's Past. 

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1 hour ago, MrDrew said:

They didn’t throw to him a lot because they were either running, or throwing to Herman Moore. Their receivers actually had hands. Just never had a QB that could get it to them.

Hard to say how Sanders would do in a different offensive setup with a consistently quality QB. If he was on the 49ers at the time he would be getting a ton of receptions, or in Green Bay. I don't think he would be on the level of Marshall Faulk though as a receiver, who was basically a receiver when he was utilized in the air. 

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14 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

So if someone said when LT was 23 years old that it's possible he'll be in the running in a few years, people should have scoffed at them? This is Football's Future, not Football's Past. 

LT - first three seasons

2001
  • SD
16 339 1,236 3.6 54 10      
2002
  • SD
16 372 1,683 4.5 76 14      
2003
  • SD
16 313 1,645 5.3 73 13      

Gurley - three seasons

2015 13 229 1,106 4.8 71 10      
2016 16 278 885 3.2 24 6      
2017 15 279 1,305 4.7 57 13      

 

LT rushed more in his second and third seasons than Gurley did in all three combined. He outstripped him in TDs and receiving yards too, although it was closer.

 

Gurley after three seasons isn't in the same tier as LT after three seasons, IMO.

So to your point, I think suggesting Gurley might be in the conversation is a stretch at this point in this career; I do not think suggesting LT in his hypothetical alternative universe would be a stretch to be scoffed at.

 

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3 minutes ago, cddolphin said:

LT - first three seasons

2001
  • SD
16 339 1,236 3.6 54 10      
2002
  • SD
16 372 1,683 4.5 76 14      
2003
  • SD
16 313 1,645 5.3 73 13      

Gurley - three seasons

2015 13 229 1,106 4.8 71 10      
2016 16 278 885 3.2 24 6      
2017 15 279 1,305 4.7 57 13      

 

LT rushed more in his second and third seasons than Gurley did in all three combined. He outstripped him in TDs and receiving yards too, although it was closer.

 

Gurley after three seasons isn't in the same tier as LT after three seasons, IMO.

So to your point, I think suggesting Gurley might be in the conversation is a stretch at this point in this career; I do not think suggesting LT in his hypothetical alternative universe would be a stretch to be scoffed at.

 

LT's Age 23 Season:

372 carries

1683 yards

4.5 YPC

14 rushing TDs

79 receptions

489 receiving yards

6.2 YPR

1 receiving TD

2171 yards from scrimmage

15 total TDs

Gurley's Age 23 Season (one less game played):

279 carries

1305 rushing yards

4.7 YPC

13 rushing TDs

64 receptions

788 receiving yards

12.3 YPR

6 receiving TDs

2093 yards from scrimmage

19 total TDs

Enough said.

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7 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

LT's Age 23 Season:

372 carries

1683 yards

4.5 YPC

14 rushing TDs

79 receptions

489 receiving yards

6.2 YPR

1 receiving TD

2171 yards from scrimmage

15 total TDs

Gurley's Age 23 Season (one less game played):

279 carries

1305 rushing yards

4.7 YPC

13 rushing TDs

64 receptions

788 receiving yards

12.3 YPR

6 receiving TDs

2093 yards from scrimmage

19 total TDs

Enough said.

Yeah, it's convenient to omit facts that hurt your argument.:D

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24 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Enough said.

Both of those seasons were taken into account in my post, though. You just removed all the other relevant data if you're doing a parallel comparison.

To clarify, you're suggesting/alluding that Gurley should be in consideration for the most complete back of all time?

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5 minutes ago, cddolphin said:

Both of those seasons were taken into account in my post, though. You just removed all the other relevant data if you're doing a parallel comparison.

To clarify, you're suggesting/alluding that Gurley should be in consideration for the most complete back of all time?

Nope. That was never my argument. I said this poster shouldn't be scoffed at:

On 5/28/2018 at 5:00 PM, freak_of_nature said:

Gurley could have an argument here in a few more years.

As for your relevant data, you're conveniently ignoring the Jeff Fisher effect, the fact that Gurley was younger than LT when he entered the NFL, and the fact that Gurley will be moving forward with McVay as his HC. Trying to point to his 2016 season as relevant data is about as logical as somebody using Faulk's 1996 season to claim that he can't be in the running.

Maybe Gurley will be in the conversation; maybe he won't be. There's no denying if he continues to play like he did under McVay this year, that he'll be there. So there's nothing wrong with someone floating his name as a possibly in a few years.

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It's hard for me to not go with LDT as my impulse and final answer.

Payton, Barry Sanders, and Marshall Faulk all deserve to be mentioned in the same conversation.

Payton was my favorite as a boy but isn't in the same level as Tomlinson as a receiver. Not that Payton wasn't great but Tomlinson lined up for plays as a receiver.

Faulk, the SDSU alum always loses to LDT when I compare them because LDT just had that nose for the goalline.

Barry... walked away too soon. I'll always wonder what he would have done. Would he have faded out or still put up huge numbers?

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5 hours ago, MrDrew said:

The lack of Barry Sanders in here saddens me. 

Everybody remembers how elusive he was, but forget how many tackles he broke out of, and what he could do as a receiver. Did he have Okoye/Peyton/Alstott power? No, but very few do. He didn't flatten people, but he also didn't let them bring him down, and he could move a pile. He could also catch when they actually threw him the ball.

Not a tough inside runner. Came out in short yardage and goal line situations. 

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13 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Not a tough inside runner. Came out in short yardage and goal line situations. 

He didn’t come out. They did take him out for Cory Schlesinger in some situations, but that’s just physics. When you have a 250lb FB that can run, you use him. 

If you don’t think he was a tough runner, go back and watch him break 10 tackles on a 60yd run. Watch him get piled up and and break it for 50. He wasn’t a big guy, but you’re as wrong as possible saying he wasn’t a tough runner.

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20 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Ricky Watters also deserves mention. Only thing he lacked was breakaway speed. 

Not one that many would think of, but definitely deserves a mention in the conversation. He really did do everything well. 

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