MrDrew Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Apprantley Sanders wasn't that good as a receiver, and had lackluster hands. Which is why he wasn't thrown to much in Detroit. His former teammate Erik Krammer said that there is a reason you don't see many highlights of him as a receiver. Not his wheelhouse. They didn’t throw to him a lot because they were either running, or throwing to Herman Moore. Their receivers actually had hands. Just never had a QB that could get it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, MrDrew said: They didn’t throw to him a lot because they were either running, or throwing to Herman Moore. Their receivers actually had hands. Just never had a QB that could get it to them. Yup. Herman Moore and Brett Perriman both put up 100+ catch seasons in that offense - the Lions played a lot of four wide back then (the silver stretch) and Lions QBs had different options before going to Barry in the flat. Even with an offense with four wide on every down, Sanders was still usually 3rd on the team in receptions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 8 hours ago, cddolphin said: When I think "complete back" I think effective runner + pass catcher, how they do it is secondary. LT had 9 seasons with 50+ receptions on top of his running acumen. Yah that's kind of the point So if someone said when LT was 23 years old that it's possible he'll be in the running in a few years, people should have scoffed at them? This is Football's Future, not Football's Past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 1 hour ago, MrDrew said: They didn’t throw to him a lot because they were either running, or throwing to Herman Moore. Their receivers actually had hands. Just never had a QB that could get it to them. Hard to say how Sanders would do in a different offensive setup with a consistently quality QB. If he was on the 49ers at the time he would be getting a ton of receptions, or in Green Bay. I don't think he would be on the level of Marshall Faulk though as a receiver, who was basically a receiver when he was utilized in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, jrry32 said: So if someone said when LT was 23 years old that it's possible he'll be in the running in a few years, people should have scoffed at them? This is Football's Future, not Football's Past. LT - first three seasons 2001 SD 16 339 1,236 3.6 54 10 2002 SD 16 372 1,683 4.5 76 14 2003 SD 16 313 1,645 5.3 73 13 Gurley - three seasons 2015 STL 13 229 1,106 4.8 71 10 2016 LAR 16 278 885 3.2 24 6 2017 LAR 15 279 1,305 4.7 57 13 LT rushed more in his second and third seasons than Gurley did in all three combined. He outstripped him in TDs and receiving yards too, although it was closer. Gurley after three seasons isn't in the same tier as LT after three seasons, IMO. So to your point, I think suggesting Gurley might be in the conversation is a stretch at this point in this career; I do not think suggesting LT in his hypothetical alternative universe would be a stretch to be scoffed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, cddolphin said: LT - first three seasons 2001 SD 16 339 1,236 3.6 54 10 2002 SD 16 372 1,683 4.5 76 14 2003 SD 16 313 1,645 5.3 73 13 Gurley - three seasons 2015 STL 13 229 1,106 4.8 71 10 2016 LAR 16 278 885 3.2 24 6 2017 LAR 15 279 1,305 4.7 57 13 LT rushed more in his second and third seasons than Gurley did in all three combined. He outstripped him in TDs and receiving yards too, although it was closer. Gurley after three seasons isn't in the same tier as LT after three seasons, IMO. So to your point, I think suggesting Gurley might be in the conversation is a stretch at this point in this career; I do not think suggesting LT in his hypothetical alternative universe would be a stretch to be scoffed at. LT's Age 23 Season: 372 carries 1683 yards 4.5 YPC 14 rushing TDs 79 receptions 489 receiving yards 6.2 YPR 1 receiving TD 2171 yards from scrimmage 15 total TDs Gurley's Age 23 Season (one less game played): 279 carries 1305 rushing yards 4.7 YPC 13 rushing TDs 64 receptions 788 receiving yards 12.3 YPR 6 receiving TDs 2093 yards from scrimmage 19 total TDs Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, jrry32 said: LT's Age 23 Season: 372 carries 1683 yards 4.5 YPC 14 rushing TDs 79 receptions 489 receiving yards 6.2 YPR 1 receiving TD 2171 yards from scrimmage 15 total TDs Gurley's Age 23 Season (one less game played): 279 carries 1305 rushing yards 4.7 YPC 13 rushing TDs 64 receptions 788 receiving yards 12.3 YPR 6 receiving TDs 2093 yards from scrimmage 19 total TDs Enough said. Yeah, it's convenient to omit facts that hurt your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, FourThreeMafia said: Yeah, it's convenient to omit facts that hurt your argument. Not as convenient as omitting common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 24 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Enough said. Both of those seasons were taken into account in my post, though. You just removed all the other relevant data if you're doing a parallel comparison. To clarify, you're suggesting/alluding that Gurley should be in consideration for the most complete back of all time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, cddolphin said: Both of those seasons were taken into account in my post, though. You just removed all the other relevant data if you're doing a parallel comparison. To clarify, you're suggesting/alluding that Gurley should be in consideration for the most complete back of all time? Nope. That was never my argument. I said this poster shouldn't be scoffed at: On 5/28/2018 at 5:00 PM, freak_of_nature said: Gurley could have an argument here in a few more years. As for your relevant data, you're conveniently ignoring the Jeff Fisher effect, the fact that Gurley was younger than LT when he entered the NFL, and the fact that Gurley will be moving forward with McVay as his HC. Trying to point to his 2016 season as relevant data is about as logical as somebody using Faulk's 1996 season to claim that he can't be in the running. Maybe Gurley will be in the conversation; maybe he won't be. There's no denying if he continues to play like he did under McVay this year, that he'll be there. So there's nothing wrong with someone floating his name as a possibly in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoric Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 It's hard for me to not go with LDT as my impulse and final answer. Payton, Barry Sanders, and Marshall Faulk all deserve to be mentioned in the same conversation. Payton was my favorite as a boy but isn't in the same level as Tomlinson as a receiver. Not that Payton wasn't great but Tomlinson lined up for plays as a receiver. Faulk, the SDSU alum always loses to LDT when I compare them because LDT just had that nose for the goalline. Barry... walked away too soon. I'll always wonder what he would have done. Would he have faded out or still put up huge numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 hours ago, MrDrew said: The lack of Barry Sanders in here saddens me. Everybody remembers how elusive he was, but forget how many tackles he broke out of, and what he could do as a receiver. Did he have Okoye/Peyton/Alstott power? No, but very few do. He didn't flatten people, but he also didn't let them bring him down, and he could move a pile. He could also catch when they actually threw him the ball. Not a tough inside runner. Came out in short yardage and goal line situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Ricky Watters also deserves mention. Only thing he lacked was breakaway speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDrew Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said: Not a tough inside runner. Came out in short yardage and goal line situations. He didn’t come out. They did take him out for Cory Schlesinger in some situations, but that’s just physics. When you have a 250lb FB that can run, you use him. If you don’t think he was a tough runner, go back and watch him break 10 tackles on a 60yd run. Watch him get piled up and and break it for 50. He wasn’t a big guy, but you’re as wrong as possible saying he wasn’t a tough runner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDrew Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said: Ricky Watters also deserves mention. Only thing he lacked was breakaway speed. Not one that many would think of, but definitely deserves a mention in the conversation. He really did do everything well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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