2018 Draft Eligible EDGE/RUSH Thread

[jebrick]

1 hour ago, jetskid007 said:

Dorance Armstrong is intriguing to me. Looks almost like a slightly smaller Aldon Smith. Really good height-weight-length to be a weakside DE/3-4 OLB, but was confused by his test scores... they were all over the map: 

• 20 YD SS: 4.23 (very good) 
• 3-cone: 7.12 (good) 
• Broad: 118” (good) 
• 40 YD: 4.87 (below average) 
• Vert: 30” (poor) 

I’d like to see his data in Waldo’s formula... also hope he can improve that 40 and vert at his proday... really like some of the glimpses I saw on tape.  

But his 10 yard split is not bad.  That VJ is pretty bad.

[jetskid007]

5 minutes ago, jebrick said:

But his 10 yard split is not bad.  That VJ is pretty bad.

Where did you find the 10YD data?

[jebrick]

1 minute ago, jetskid007 said:

Where did you find the 10YD data?

http://walterfootball.com/combine2018DL.php

[Iamcanadian]

2 hours ago, jetskid007 said:

Dorance Armstrong is intriguing to me. Looks almost like a slightly smaller Aldon Smith. Really good height-weight-length to be a weakside DE/3-4 OLB, but was confused by his test scores... they were all over the map: 

• 20 YD SS: 4.23 (very good) 
• 3-cone: 7.12 (good) 
• Broad: 118” (good) 
• 40 YD: 4.87 (below average) 
• Vert: 30” (poor) 

I’d like to see his data in Waldo’s formula... also hope he can improve that 40 and vert at his proday... really like some of the glimpses I saw on tape.  

You left out that his workout was A1, he looked every bit the part and probably kept him in the 2nd round and if he can improve that 40 into the 7's look out.

[MSURacerDT55]

2 hours ago, jetskid007 said:

Dorance Armstrong is intriguing to me. Looks almost like a slightly smaller Aldon Smith

Not even close to having the technique Smith had, Smith was a technician that literally took games over at Mizzou and in the NFL.

[Iamcanadian]

10 hours ago, MNPackfan32 said:

Not the whole class per say.

Chubb .9941

Davenport .9346

Landry .9533

Sweat .9799

Hubbard .9487

Okoronkwo 1.0050

Chad Thomas .9054

Lorenzo Carter .9520

 

Who am I missing?

 

Also remember, just because somebody scores higher, doesn't make them a better prospect. This is simply a qualifier. I like to use .9000 as my base and anything over 1.05 is elite.

Well, I have never heard of the formula, but if it places Okoronkwo over Carter, it is basically worthless IMO. Okoronkwo is too small to play on the DL and just does not have the skills to play LB. He has a tough road to huo. 

Also, if it does rate who is higher as a better prospect, what good is it????

[reamer]

22 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

Well, I have never heard of the formula, but if it places Okoronkwo over Carter, it is basically worthless IMO. Okoronkwo is too small to play on the DL and just does not have the skills to play LB. He has a tough road to huo. 

Also, if it does rate who is higher as a better prospect, what good is it????

It's a metric for comparing their test results, weighted for size. I believe it has an explosive element as well as a twitch element. Results overall have been promising for the different tiers of risk. Waldo, a guy who used to post (I don't think he does anymore), came up with it, and he never claimed it shows you who is the better prospect. It does show who is a risky prospect, however; he had quite a few years of extremely good predictions just based on the data. Those guys are all in a fine category, but if a player falls below a certain threshold, historically it's a red flag. 

In other words, a higher score isn't necessarily better, but a low score (i.e., failing to reach the cutoff), is a pretty big problem.

[MNPackfan32]

2 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Well, I have never heard of the formula, but if it places Okoronkwo over Carter, it is basically worthless IMO. Okoronkwo is too small to play on the DL and just does not have the skills to play LB. He has a tough road to huo. 

Also, if it does rate who is higher as a better prospect, what good is it????

First of all, Okoronkwo is almost identical size to Yannick Ngakoue.

 

Second, like I stated. A higher score doesn't make them a better player. It filters players. Very low success rate below .90 incredibly high success rate above 1.05. Make sense?

[Packerraymond]

2 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Well, I have never heard of the formula, but if it places Okoronkwo over Carter, it is basically worthless IMO. Okoronkwo is too small to play on the DL and just does not have the skills to play LB. He has a tough road to huo. 

Also, if it does rate who is higher as a better prospect, what good is it????

It's just a measure of explosive power. Uses mass (weight/height) and your vert/broad. Oko is 3 pounds heavier and shorter, so he scores a little better. Anything from .9-1.0 shouldn't really be used one way or another as a ranking, there's not a lot of conclusive evidence within that area. Really it's just greater than 1.05 that's a huge plus and less than .9 that's a concern.

I don't like that tall prospects are negatively effected and that 10 yard splits aren't weighted, but it's a nifty little calculation. 

Tyquan Lewis and Tavon Bryan had the highest scores of the guys who did the necessary drill at the Combine.

Aruna had the highest score of the EDGE guys, but he's stiff as a board.

[jetskid007]

2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Not even close to having the technique Smith had, Smith was a technician that literally took games over at Mizzou and in the NFL.

Agreed, just going by physical look and movements. Aldon was a rare, rare talent. Shame he’s a nutcase. 

[Forge]

Is the waldo formula even the waldo formula any more? I know that Justis Mosqueda does his "force players", but I believe that incorporates additional factors into the equation and is not actually the waldo formula any more. 

[MSURacerDT55]

Can someone seriously tell me the difference between Emmanuel Ogbah as a prospect and Bradley Chubb as a prospect? Both have identical size, identical physical traits (though Ogbah has a better 10 yard split and 3 cone)? One was the 32nd pick and one is a projected top 5 pick.

[sammymvpknight]

5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Can someone seriously tell me the difference between Emmanuel Ogbah as a prospect and Bradley Chubb as a prospect? Both have identical size, identical physical traits (though Ogbah has a better 10 yard split and 3 cone)? One was the 32nd pick and one is a projected top 5 pick.

Well...to start...football is more than just a math equation. Chubb is the more talented football player

[MSURacerDT55]

42 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

Well...to start...football is more than just a math equation. Chubb is the more talented football player

First, the purpose of the question is to invoke higher level conversations about differences. 

Second, explain in SPECIFICS how Chubb is "more talented"... (Which is a pretty generic explanation)

[jetskid007]

1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Can someone seriously tell me the difference between Emmanuel Ogbah as a prospect and Bradley Chubb as a prospect? Both have identical size, identical physical traits (though Ogbah has a better 10 yard split and 3 cone)? One was the 32nd pick and one is a projected top 5 pick.

I think Chubb is much more refined as a pass rusher at this point. Chubb is an artist, whereas Ogbah was somewhat of a raw canvas. Most notable difference is Chubb's motor; also shows much better instincts; plays with more balance; has a higher football intellect (on tape at least). Chubb isn't the most athletic guy out there, but he reminds me of Derek Barnett in a bigger, longer body. He just seems like a player who will be a rock solid starter for years, whereas Ogbah was more of a projection. That's usually the difference between a full round.