What would you offer for Khalil Mack?

[3rivers]

On 2018-07-31 at 5:10 PM, Humble_Beast said:

say an all pro player was on the block, entering his prime years at the age of 27... what is he worth to your NFL franchise?

Mach is a really good OLB/DE and the steelers need help but I don't agree with these mega deals. 

All pro is one thing but HOF quality is when I would consider a deal but my deal wouldn't be what teams offer now. These long term deals are not a good idea, and rarely work out for players that aren't QB's . It hurts the team, so I would think 3- 4 years and  but as a result the player would move on.  Look what happened to Watt, injuries. Other players were hyped, then injuries. Injuries are a part of the game and investing too much into one player isn't worth it IMO accept the QB's in todays game.  Revis in his prime would be considered, but I wouldn't offer $20M to DL or LB's or safeties.  

QB - Top tier QB's whatever the asking price is I understand, but don't agree with the QB salaries in todays game

RB - nope - biggest waste of that type of salary a team could spend in todays game . See the steelers with bell 

TE - maybe Kelce or Gronk when healthy, these players are defensive mismatches and worth it IMO

CB - Prime Revis , R. Woodson, Deon, Bailey .  Revis shutdown megatron so thats worth something. 

WR  - not really because they get shut down. Moss or Rice, that would be it and they are retired. 

DT - maybe donald today, he is that good  or was in the old scheme. Lets see what wade does and if he is in shape and ready to go. 

LB - nope, but I agreed with the deal Houston got because he was arguably DPOY and unblockable , too bad about the injury

DE - nope -  Watt is same as Houston above, too bad about the injury 

Safety - probably not.  I sure would say bye to bell if prime Troy was UFA and proceed to park the brinks truck in Troys driveway and say heres the key Is he ever missed.

Whatever the going rates are, that's what the limit is, I don't agree with overspending unless it is a generational player or better.  Too often teams eat cap space because of injuries to these longer deals. In the new CBS there should be guaranteed money that doesn't count against the cap if the player suffered various legit  injuries and is released. 

[Shanedorf]

The Jets have reached out to the Raiders regarding a possible trade for holdout defensive end Khalil Mack, according to Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News.

Per Mehta, more than a dozen teams have made inquiries regarding Mack, the 2016 defensive player of the year. The Jets have not yet made a trade offer to the Raiders.

[MrOaktown_56]

25 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

The Jets have reached out to the Raiders regarding a possible trade for holdout defensive end Khalil Mack, according to Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News.

Per Mehta, more than a dozen teams have made inquiries regarding Mack, the 2016 defensive player of the year. The Jets have not yet made a trade offer to the Raiders.

Mckenzie has met all offers with a "firm no" per Sports Illustrated.

[MrOaktown_56]

21 hours ago, 3rivers said:

Mach is a really good OLB/DE and the steelers need help but I don't agree with these mega deals. 

All pro is one thing but HOF quality is when I would consider a deal but my deal wouldn't be what teams offer now. These long term deals are not a good idea, and rarely work out for players that aren't QB's . It hurts the team, so I would think 3- 4 years and  but as a result the player would move on.  Look what happened to Watt, injuries. Other players were hyped, then injuries. Injuries are a part of the game and investing too much into one player isn't worth it IMO accept the QB's in todays game.  Revis in his prime would be considered, but I wouldn't offer $20M to DL or LB's or safeties.  

QB - Top tier QB's whatever the asking price is I understand, but don't agree with the QB salaries in todays game

RB - nope - biggest waste of that type of salary a team could spend in todays game . See the steelers with bell 

TE - maybe Kelce or Gronk when healthy, these players are defensive mismatches and worth it IMO

CB - Prime Revis , R. Woodson, Deon, Bailey .  Revis shutdown megatron so thats worth something. 

WR  - not really because they get shut down. Moss or Rice, that would be it and they are retired. 

DT - maybe donald today, he is that good  or was in the old scheme. Lets see what wade does and if he is in shape and ready to go. 

LB - nope, but I agreed with the deal Houston got because he was arguably DPOY and unblockable , too bad about the injury

DE - nope -  Watt is same as Houston above, too bad about the injury 

Safety - probably not.  I sure would say bye to bell if prime Troy was UFA and proceed to park the brinks truck in Troys driveway and say heres the key Is he ever missed.

Whatever the going rates are, that's what the limit is, I don't agree with overspending unless it is a generational player or better.  Too often teams eat cap space because of injuries to these longer deals. In the new CBS there should be guaranteed money that doesn't count against the cap if the player suffered various legit  injuries and is released. 

26

He's not hall of fame quality in his first 4 years? He's been first team all pro twice, and won defensive player of the year within his first 4 years in the league. If that isn't hall of fame caliber, I don't know what is.

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Mckenzie has met all offers with a "firm no" per Sports Illustrated.

As they should. You don't deal him until you are absolutely sure that this isn't going to end and that there's no way to solve this. 

His value isn't going to diminish on an open market just because teams know that they are going to trade him. Too many teams are going to be interested. His value in trade may be capped to some extent due to the contract extension, but in no situation will it truly bottom out in my opinion. Maybe if he sat the entire year or something? I don't know. 

[MrOaktown_56]

7 minutes ago, Forge said:

As they should. You don't deal him until you are absolutely sure that this isn't going to end and that there's no way to solve this. 

His value isn't going to diminish on an open market just because teams know that they are going to trade him. Too many teams are going to be interested. His value in trade may be capped to some extent due to the contract extension, but in no situation will it truly bottom out in my opinion. Maybe if he sat the entire year or something? I don't know. 

These teams all desperately want a game changing player and I don't blame them for inquiring, but I love how many of these fans think they know the Raiders FO better than people like me who follow every aspect of what they do with a fine tooth comb.

[Shanedorf]

3 minutes ago, Forge said:

As they should. You don't deal him until you are absolutely sure that this isn't going to end and that there's no way to solve this.

Of course.

Mack has final say in his future destination too because he has to agree to a new deal with that team - or else the compensation won't be commensurate with the player.

Mr. Oaktown, with all due respect, you have no earthly idea what's actually going on in the Raiders front office. ( none of us do)

The only thing you know is what they intentionally feed the reporters -  it matters not how many teeth your comb has. This is a game of the highest stakes poker and none of the parties involved are going to divulge their true intentions to a media outlet in the middle of negotiating.

[3rivers]

49 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

He's not hall of fame quality in his first 4 years? He's been first team all pro twice, and won defensive player of the year within his first 4 years in the league. If that isn't hall of fame caliber, I don't know what is.

He probably is, I just don't agree with the idea of that much cap space for OLB/DE unless the player is actually more dominant .  TE's never used to be nearly the threat they are now,  defensive mismatches to the extreme.  It's all about the salary cap thats all, no knock on Macks ability. If there wasn't a cap, well he would be playing for Jerry, along with Watt and Brady etc 

[Totty]

3 hours ago, 3rivers said:

He probably is, I just don't agree with the idea of that much cap space for OLB/DE unless the player is actually more dominant .  TE's never used to be nearly the threat they are now,  defensive mismatches to the extreme.  It's all about the salary cap thats all, no knock on Macks ability. If there wasn't a cap, well he would be playing for Jerry, along with Watt and Brady etc 

In this post you say he isn't dominant enough, and then say you can't knock his abilities?  

I'm lost.   

 

Hardly anyone can run to his side.  Hardly anyone can protect his side.  He's as athletic as you can get.  He sacked Osweiler like 47 times in a game. (5)

 

AP at two positions in the same year.  DPOY.  40~ sacks in 4 years.  Pay him.  

[BayRaider]

Draft Day 2

Cleveland offers Oakland 4 1sts, 3 2nds, and a 3rd. Deal. 

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, Totty said:

In this post you say he isn't dominant enough, and then say you can't knock his abilities?  

I'm lost.   

 

Hardly anyone can run to his side.  Hardly anyone can protect his side.  He's as athletic as you can get.  He sacked Osweiler like 47 times in a game. (5)

 

AP at two positions in the same year.  DPOY.  40~ sacks in 4 years.  Pay him.  

 

Keep in mind that I am a fan of a team that annually is out of cap space and could always add a few more pieces but can't.  It affects how I view the cap and mega deals, not necessarily how I critique the players ability.  I even think a team should keep around $10M+  for signings/trade to be made during the season due to injuries but thats just me. 

For that position, risk of injury and resulting effect, For armchair GM that I am with current cap system , to have the $20M cap value designated to  DE/OLB the player would have to be even more insane but thats just me. I won't argue with anyone that does pay him,  his work ethic and skills speak for themselves. Maintaining health though , it's the sad reality that it could be an injury/surgery away resulting from dominant to good as unfair as it is.  If they had a rule where one player could get released and there is no cap penalty, then by all means sign at any price .  The cap penalty a team faces is probably why teams tend to be reluctant, as well as many players never playing out the deal at that high level.  In the new CBA they should try to have it so a team can have a player (or two) that won't count against the cap if released after a injury that seriously affected the production.  This should make things interesting, but might raise salaries a bit more than we think. It could be good to try out for 3 years and see.

 

I saw the game where he racked up stats vs the turnstile in denver. Those games help the stats and he took the game over. He plays all out and can take over. That is where a good OT can make all the difference hence my tendency to want a top notch OL.  I hope he gets the deal he wants, and if he could play it out at the level he has, that would be great too. 

Don't believe I think Mack is elite ? Hey, by all means trade him to the steelers for Bell who everyone says is elite, no arguments here, none!  We need help at the OLB/edge, so make it happen.

[3rivers]

17 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Draft Day 2

Cleveland offers Oakland 4 1sts, 3 2nds, and a 3rd. Deal. 

so this would be Hershel walker trade redux ? I never thought I would see anything that was remotely close to that again but if it works for both parties that would be nice too. The Browns would have a dominant front 4 , so as a steeler fan, maybe not a good idea 

Just imagine how many picks oakland would have if the Browns finished last and they started to trade picks  

[MrOaktown_56]

7 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Of course.

Mack has final say in his future destination too because he has to agree to a new deal with that team - or else the compensation won't be commensurate with the player.

Mr. Oaktown, with all due respect, you have no earthly idea what's actually going on in the Raiders front office. ( none of us do)

The only thing you know is what they intentionally feed the reporters -  it matters not how many teeth your comb has. This is a game of the highest stakes poker and none of the parties involved are going to divulge their true intentions to a media outlet in the middle of negotiating.

 

 

I'm not referring to you, or specifically me having sources.

I'm saying there have been people in these thread(s) who have insinuated that we don't have the cap room to pay Mack, or have insinuated that Gruden doesn't want/value him, or that Mark Davis is too cheap/can't pay Mack without any evidence, when me and other Raider fans who follow the team closely have documented evidence of things said to the contrary. We don't know what's going on in the FO, but if literal quotes and spotrac are lying, then what can we really believe? Nothing?

We don't know anything for sure, but we can definitely infer a lot based off Mckenzie's tendencies as well... And I trust my inferences about the Raiders FO more than someone who doesn't follow the team nearly as closely.

Also, how is it poker? The Raiders have not shown any interest in trading Mack so there's no need to front to inflate his value to other teams. If they did, why would Mckenzie meet all inquiries with a firm no? Unless that's a false report too?

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, 3rivers said:

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Draft Day 2

Cleveland offers Oakland 4 1sts, 3 2nds, and a 3rd. Deal. 

so this would be Hershel walker trade redux ? I never thought I would see anything that was remotely close to that again but if it works for both parties that would be nice too. The Browns would have a dominant front 4 , so as a steeler fan, maybe not a good idea 

Just imagine how many picks oakland would have if the Browns finished last and they started to trade picks  

As a Browns fan that is just too many picks I'd have to remove the 3rd and give up Garrett, Ward and Landry instead.

[turtle28]

One of my teams top pass rushers and a 1st round pick with a second conditional first round pick if Mack makes All-Pro in his first season with my team. If he doesn’t make All-Pro, that 1st turns into a 3rd round pick.