Update: Urban Meyer suspended 3 games

[brownie man]

Can someone make a poll of

”will they fire Urban Meyer yes or no.”

[Raves]

16 minutes ago, winitall said:

I’m just here to point out that bartenders can be held responsible for DUIs. If they overserve someone and that person goes out and gets into an accident, the bar and bartender can be held responsible. 

I shouldve clarified it more because i know that they can be responsible if they dont cut people off at a certain point.

[BobbyPhil1781]

3 hours ago, Breesus mode said:

you're so invested in your team you're willing to believe a liar, lulz

No I'm invested in keeping an open mind about this bc we don't know the full story yet. Not sure why this is so difficult for people to do. Ruben Foster loves y'all. Sometimes you gotta wait for the facts believe it or not

[BobbyPhil1781]

I know, I know, "Muh Reddit" and no one wants to believe things might not be what they've already "judge, jury, and executioned" but I found this interesting:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OhioStateFootball/comments/94t19c/crosspost_from_rcfb_a_lawyers_deep_dive_into/

 

[winitall]

On 8/4/2018 at 4:50 PM, JTagg7754 said:

No I'm invested in keeping an open mind about this bc we don't know the full story yet. Not sure why this is so difficult for people to do. Ruben Foster loves y'all. Sometimes you gotta wait for the facts believe it or not

So far we have:

1. Text messages from Zach Smith to his wife, confirming the abuse.

2. Text messages from Shelley Meyer showing that she clearly believes Courtney when she says she was abused.

3. Text messages from another coach's wife, confirming that Urban has been informed about the domestic violence claims.

4. A statement from Urban Meyer, confirming that he knew about the domestic violence accusations.

5. Urban Meyer accepting that he lied to the public about Zach Smith and his knowledge of events.

 

So even if you take everything Urban Meyer has said at face value, you have to admit that he knew that someone on his staff was committing domestic violence against his wife and did not terminate him.  In fact, he gave Smith multiple raises since the incidents.  He also lied to the public and attempted to discredit the investigation into Zach Smith when he found out about it.  Those are all facts and none of it is subjective.  That is enough evidence to make judgements.  

[BobbyPhil1781]

4 minutes ago, winitall said:

So far we have:

1. Text messages from Zach Smith to his wife, confirming the abuse.

2. Text messages from Shelley Meyer showing that she clearly believes Courtney when she says she was abused.

3. Text messages from another coach's wife, confirming that Urban has been informed about the domestic violence claims.

4. A statement from Urban Meyer, confirming that he knew about the domestic violence accusations.

5. Urban Meyer accepting that he lied to the public about Zach Smith and his knowledge of events.

 

So even if you take everything Urban Meyer has said at face value, you have to admit that he knew that someone on his staff was committing domestic violence against his wife and did not terminate him.  In fact, he gave Smith multiple raises since the incidents.  He also lied to the public and attempted to discredit the investigation into Zach Smith when he found out about it.  Those are all facts and none of it is subjective.  That is enough evidence to make judgements.  

1. We see pictures of abuse. There's people stating that she's an insane drunk and he claims those marks are from defense. Is it true? We have no clue. I will wait to pass judgement but regardless, the marks on her are unacceptable. 

2. Correct

3. Urban stated he misspoke on media day and claimed he did take it up to superiors coinciding with his actions in 2009. Smith said in an interview that in 2015 he was on a recruiting trip when Gene called him. Said something was up and he needed to come back immediately. This would also suggest Urban told Gene.

4. Correct and that he did what he was supposed to do and told Gene.

5. Yep, he shouldn't have said that. People lie to the media all the time though. He owned it. I'm not sure either but wasn't there an investigation going on during media day? If so, would he be allowed to discuss it? I'm not sure. Regardless, Smith stated they talked about it and since no arrests were made prior, Urban seemingly gave him the benefit of the doubt but told him that if he found out differently, he'd be gone, immediately. 

There's still plenty more to get into and I'm sure we'll get more this week

[winitall]

20 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said:

1. We see pictures of abuse. There's people stating that she's an insane drunk and he claims those marks are from defense. Is it true? We have no clue. I will wait to pass judgement but regardless, the marks on her are unacceptable. 

2. Correct

3. Urban stated he misspoke on media day and claimed he did take it up to superiors coinciding with his actions in 2009. Smith said in an interview that in 2015 he was on a recruiting trip when Gene called him. Said something was up and he needed to come back immediately. This would also suggest Urban told Gene.

4. Correct and that he did what he was supposed to do and told Gene.

5. Yep, he shouldn't have said that. People lie to the media all the time though. He owned it. I'm not sure either but wasn't there an investigation going on during media day? If so, would he be allowed to discuss it? I'm not sure. Regardless, Smith stated they talked about it and since no arrests were made prior, Urban seemingly gave him the benefit of the doubt but told him that if he found out differently, he'd be gone, immediately. 

There's still plenty more to get into and I'm sure we'll get more this week

 

 I will address the rest of your post later.  But your response to number one is just flat out wrong.  We have text messages from Zach Smith acknowledging that he has strangled her in the past.  How is that not conclusive?

[BobbyPhil1781]

5 minutes ago, winitall said:

 

 I will address the rest of your post later.  But your response to number one is just flat out wrong.  We have text messages from Zach Smith acknowledging that he has strangled her in the past.  How is that not conclusive?

Ok when was this text provided to Urban? I'm not worried about Zach's guilt, he's done. I'm more concerned with how this will effect Urban's employment status. If there's enough there for the worst case scenario and if he did cover things up for a poor WR coach with actions that don't mimic those from 2009, then I'll bring him his boxes to pack his office, personally. 

[winitall]

Just now, JTagg7754 said:

Ok when was this text provided to Urban? I'm not worried about Zach's guilt, he's done. I'm more concerned with how this will effect Urban's employment status and if there's enough there for her worst case scenario

Now you are moving the goalposts.  My original bullet point was just saying that Zach Smith has admitted to beating his wife.  You responded basically saying "We have no clue if her allegations are true."  I responded with evidence that the allegations were true.  Now you are pivoting to a different bullet point.  You were wrong on your first point.  Just admit it.  

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, winitall said:

Now you are moving the goalposts.  My original bullet point was just saying that Zach Smith has admitted to beating his wife.  You responded basically saying "We have no clue if her allegations are true."  I responded with evidence that the allegations were true.  Now you are pivoting to a different bullet point.  You were wrong on your first point.  Just admit it.  

I admit it. What does that change? Nothing except possibly you pitching a tent about proving someone wrong on a forum.

[Raves]

So if we take Meyer's statement at face value, then he reported as was required.  So the only issue is that he lied to the media or mispoke however you want to phrase it.

So why should he lose his job?  He did what he was required to do.  Do you want him to beat up Zach Smith for the alleged abuse and then be charged with aggravated assault?  If you fire Zach Smith before due process then you open up the universoty to wrongful termination.  If you are saying then he shouldnt have been given a new contract, well there were no charges, police investigation didnt happen/turned up nothing.

I mean at what point do we separate peoples home lifes and their work?  I mean by going through the logic of many on here, Rueban Foster would've been banned from football for life already.

[BobbyPhil1781]

12 minutes ago, Raves said:

So if we take Meyer's statement at face value, then he reported as was required.  So the only issue is that he lied to the media or mispoke however you want to phrase it.

So why should he lose his job?  He did what he was required to do.  Do you want him to beat up Zach Smith for the alleged abuse and then be charged with aggravated assault?  If you fire Zach Smith before due process then you open up the universoty to wrongful termination.  If you are saying then he shouldnt have been given a new contract, well there were no charges, police investigation didnt happen/turned up nothing.

I mean at what point do we separate peoples home lifes and their work?  I mean by going through the logic of many on here, Rueban Foster would've been banned from football for life already.

I'd like to hear anything that suggests he should go if this does wind up being true. It sounds as if he followed proper procedure in reporting this to Gene and it would mimic what he did in 09. The lack of an arrest and the police doing nothing helps his case for keeping Smith in the staff also until he was let go. Still anxious to find out though

[DirtyDez]

So long story short he didn’t fire Smith in 15’ because he was the grandson of Urban’s mentor?

[BigD88]

30 minutes ago, Raves said:

So if we take Meyer's statement at face value, then he reported as was required.  So the only issue is that he lied to the media or mispoke however you want to phrase it.

So why should he lose his job?  He did what he was required to do.  Do you want him to beat up Zach Smith for the alleged abuse and then be charged with aggravated assault?  If you fire Zach Smith before due process then you open up the universoty to wrongful termination.  If you are saying then he shouldnt have been given a new contract, well there were no charges, police investigation didnt happen/turned up nothing.

I mean at what point do we separate peoples home lifes and their work?  I mean by going through the logic of many on here, Rueban Foster would've been banned from football for life already.

I know we touched on this earlier in the weekend, but as a Penn State fan, if I found out that James Franklin was given (at least) two different allegations of domestic violence about our current WR coach, and continued to keep him on staff for years, And renew his contract, I’d be absolutely furious because that’s just colossally stupid.

Its not about shielding himself and the program with technicalities of reporting it to the AD (btw, didn’t Zach Smith say that Gene Smith was told by police, not Urban, although that doesn’t mean Urban didn’t report it at some point) - it’s about leaving the program vulnerable to a slew of negative publicity for a simple position coach. One instance? Fine. Report it and nothing legally comes from it? Ok, you can explain that away if it ever comes to light. But (at least) two? Now there’s a trend and you simply have to distance this person from the program from a pure risk management perspective. Especially if I’m plastering giant signs saying “respect women” in the football building and parading around a “zero tolerance” message with regards to violence against women. Also, when it comes to domestic violence, there are a TON of reasons for why many incidents aren’t prosecuted, some of which we’ve seen at play here based on what we know so far (victim being pressured not to ruin their spouse’s career and financial security, the accompanying mental abuse where the victim feels that she is also at fault, etc). 

Its just terrible management to keep that ticking time bomb around. I understand that he probably felt conflicted, or gave him one too many chances because ZS was his mentor’s grandson (again, assuming best case scenario here for Urban), but when that backfires, you may have to pay the piper.

PS-It would be very hard to win a wrongful termination suit unless the program went out of their way to broadcast it to the whole world that Zach Smith was an abusive husband. Simply firing him before his contract was up would not open them up to some wrongful termination suit. And unless ZS would’ve wanted to sabotage his own future job prospects, he wouldn’t pursue such a course of action.

[NateDawg]

3 minutes ago, BigD88 said:

Also, when it comes to domestic violence, there are a TON of reasons for why many incidents aren’t prosecuted, some of which we’ve seen at play here based on what we know so far (victim being pressured not to ruin their spouse’s career and financial security, the accompanying mental abuse where the victim feels that she is also at fault, etc). 

With DV, unlike other crimes, you don’t have to have a willing victim. Even if the victim says they don’t want to prosecute, charges are filed based solely on probable cause, and suspect goes to jail. It’s that simple. The questions that people seem not to be asking is why were no charges filed by police? Only logical answer is that for one reason or another, there was conflicting information. People are expecting Meyer to act above the police by judging Smith’s guilt or innocence, even when he reported stuff to the AD. I personally think the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze with Smith and would have handled it differently. Too many hot takes, torches and pitchforks on this one.