MrOaktown_56 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, holyghost said: I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying. A complete dunce understands that a high 1st is worth more than a low 1st. McKenzie says garbage like this and evades answering all the real questions posed to him to convince fans and media not to roast the Raiders for being a bottom of the barrel cheap awful underperforming team that operates swimming in dysfunction that never seems to end. It's a distraction ploy to keep your mind off of the fact that not only did they just trade their best player, but they also did not get a return for it that can constitute "an offer they couldn't refuse". That they throw away draft capital like it's empty water bottles, and operate with a personnel strategy that makes sense to no human and has no coherent direction from year to year. Think he would answer to that? Nope. So instead he tells you how effectively they "targeted" teams like the Bears to get some sort of great deal they didn't even remotely actually get. These are the idiots of the NFL. We're fans of the idiot team, just accept it. I'm not inherently disagreeing here, but also consider that Mckenzie has been drafting FOR a prior staff that was a clown show. They couldn't develop talent, or field acceptable offensive/defensive units. I have hope in our new staff to develop the players we bring in. This is an extreme bet on them, that they can (eventually) replace elite production with a host of good players on rookie deals and affordable mid-tier free agents going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I hate that we gave back a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyghost Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I'm not inherently disagreeing here, but also consider that Mckenzie has been drafting FOR a prior staff that was a clown show. They couldn't develop talent, or field acceptable offensive/defensive units. I have hope in our new staff to develop the players we bring in. This is an extreme bet on them, that they can (eventually) replace elite production with a host of good players on rookie deals and affordable mid-tier free agents going forward. This is exactly what I am saying. First bolded statement: Mckenzie drafting for numerous prior staffs speaks to no clear and consistent power structure, therefore no clear organizational philosophy. The fact that they even hired a staff that was a clown show speaks to that same issue of a lack of structure, clear philosophy, and basic standards. Having "hope" in our new staff is also directly related to the fact that they do not share or do not have an organizational philosophy. Nothing coherent to help a fan understand things, other than blind hope. Second bolded statement: An extreme bet on them is already akin to saying that they have nothing substantial to actually offer, so they have to be gambled on like a longshot, to somehow accidentally succeed. Then you outline a simple and clear organizational philosophy, without any indication whatsoever that the actual team has that same thing in mind. Even though this team has had months, years, decades to put forth some idea of what the hell they are doing and how they are going to do it. That's almost as if the fan, you, knows better than these dimwits on what is needed to at least attempt to consistently field a sensible successful team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyghost Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: I hate that we gave back a second. We gave back a second while receiving a third. We got two firsts and gave them two trade ups. I despise it for the simple fact that we should have set a clear bottom line that if they're not giving up two firsts plus, they're not getting Mack and that's the end of it. We had leverage with Mack on his option year, safely fitted under our current cap, and no reason to accomodate Chicago on one inch. That's a big reason why I hate it. Giving them the trade backs sends the message of incredibly weak and desperate negotiating. Spineless desperate dimwits. But to say we gave up a second is not technically accurate. We traded back with them from 2nd to 3rd and 5th to 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, holyghost said: This is exactly what I am saying. First bolded statement: Mckenzie drafting for numerous prior staffs speaks to no clear and consistent power structure, therefore no clear organizational philosophy. The fact that they even hired a staff that was a clown show speaks to that same issue of a lack of structure, clear philosophy, and basic standards. Having "hope" in our new staff is also directly related to the fact that they do not share or do not have an organizational philosophy. Nothing coherent to help a fan understand things, other than blind hope. Second bolded statement: An extreme bet on them is already akin to saying that they have nothing substantial to actually offer, so they have to be gambled on like a longshot, to somehow accidentally succeed. Then you outline a simple and clear organizational philosophy, without any indication whatsoever that the actual team has that same thing in mind. Even though this team has had months, years, decades to put forth some idea of what the hell they are doing and how they are going to do it. That's almost as if the fan, you, knows better than these dimwits on what is needed to at least attempt to consistently field a sensible successful team. This is the first year. I want to see it play out. I'm pretty pissed at Gruden right now, but the least we can do is give him a year to evaluate the roster and see how this team performs before we jump to any conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 25 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Something has to change because these contracts are getting ridiculous in general. The extremely high QB contracts were bad enough already but now we're seeing pass rushers getting paid just as much and they don't even bring half of the revenue that QB's do. If history is any indication we're looking at ~11M increase in each of the next 2 years until the new CBA in 2021. Following the last CBA the cap actually decreased for that year--largely due to the mess that took place. Speaking just within the LA market, Donald is bringing in more revenue (individually and likely via licensing-payouts for the Rams/NFL as well) than Goff is. We'll see what and how things go with DeShaun Watson, but JJ Watt is the most marketable and marketed guy on that Houston team. Other than when they had Peyton - who brought his marketing and sponsorships with him - Von Miller is Denver's most marketable player. It's not the case with ALL pass-rushers, but all the guys who have broken the $100M threshold among pass-rushers have most definitely been bringing QB-level, or thereabouts, revenue to their respective teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 36 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: You seriously said what if Mack gets comfortable with a new contract and his play falls off. Because that's never happened before in the history of ever. Every blockbuster trade ALWAYS works out. Every huge contract ALWAYS works out. Every player who has three great years ALWAYS has five more great years. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyghost Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Just now, MrOaktown_56 said: This is the first year. I want to see it play out. I'm pretty pissed at Gruden right now, but the least we can do is give him a year to evaluate the roster and see how this team performs before we jump to any conclusions. see it play out... It's already playing out bro. This offseason isn't enough for you to see that the dysfunction in Oakland continues as it ever has? Smh on that one. The likelihood that a team that operates like this can consistently field a winner is exactly as you stated, an extreme bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 17 hours ago, Pool said: Adrian Amos, Jordan Howard, Tarik Cohen, and Eddie Jackson are nothing more than solid starters? Gimme a break dude. That just simply isn't true. Of the four, I'd really only argue that Jordan Howard is more than a solid starter. Maybe in a few years, but right now none of them are players I'd argue are at the top of their positions by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, holyghost said: see it play out... It's already playing out bro. This offseason isn't enough for you to see that the dysfunction in Oakland continues as it ever has? Smh on that one. The likelihood that a team that operates like this can consistently field a winner is exactly as you stated, an extreme bet. I feel your pain and I'm pissed at some of these moves, but again I want to see the product on the field. It sounds stupid, but I do want to see it before I jump to any conclusions because I don't belong to the gruden meme hivemind that buys shallow narratives. Rampant confirmation bias is most of what I see on Gruden posts so again, I'll take the wait and see approach. If it's an unadulterated disaster, I'll continue to rip this organization like I have for many, many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 17 hours ago, Jakuvious said: Obviously their fate still depends on Trubisky, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have gone for Mack. I'm not arguing whether or not they should to look to acquire Mack. But would you view this trade in the same light if you thought Trubisky wasn't very good? If you believed the Bears were handing a potential top-10 pick to the Raiders next year, I can pretty much guarantee you that we wouldn't be praising the Bears for this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: I'm not arguing whether or not they should to look to acquire Mack. But would you view this trade in the same light if you thought Trubisky wasn't very good? If you believed the Bears were handing a potential top-10 pick to the Raiders next year, I can pretty much guarantee you that we wouldn't be praising the Bears for this deal. Hence, wait and see with this one. For what it's worth, I think the NFC North is the toughest division in the NFL. This bears team could be the best its been in years and still finish 3rd or 4th because of the quality of GB and MIN. I wouldn't sleep on Detroit either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Outpost31 said: I was one of two to three people here who desperately DIDN'T want to trade for him, and that is easily confirmable if you look through our thread, so my opinion on trading for Mack hasn't changed once. You can laugh if you like, you can call me a homer if you like, but I can do the same to you. I think even less of the trade for a team that doesn't have Aaron Rodgers. So... What does that even mean? I'm legit confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 17 hours ago, MonserinNC said: I think it was your GB Packers from 92 to 93 getting Reggie White ....I might be wrong but you get my drift....This isnt getting Oliver Vernon or pre-injury JPP....this is getting Terrell Suggs or Von Miller in their primes. Like future HOF level talent. This is getting Reggie White. Kind of acting like thats a bad thing is just pure being a hater. Nobody is saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying I think people are overestimating the impact a non-QB is going to have on a roster. And the Reggie White comparison was 20+ years ago, that's really the last time that a non-QB really changed a teams' fortune, and I'd make the argument that the Packers' fortune changed more because of Brett Favre than Reggie White. Not trying to downplay the impact Reggie White had on the Packers, but Brett Favre was the reason why the Packers became good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Hence, wait and see with this one. For what it's worth, I think the NFC North is the toughest division in the NFL. This bears team could be the best its been in years and still finish 3rd or 4th because of the quality of GB and MIN. I wouldn't sleep on Detroit either. If only the AFC East could give NE such a run for their money........ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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