Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[pwny]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He's able to do whatever he wants throughout the series except hurt any of the main characters. 

How do you fix your complaint about S6 then? You complained that Bran escaped into the dead of the night and wasn't pursued at all, and then when shown that didn't happen, you're still complaining about it. So what fixes is?

[Superman(DH23)]

5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The Night King knows that Bran is with the 3ER and possess his powers too. The NK is supposed to be the most bad@ss villain ever but let his second target escape his grasp only to expose himself in front of his huge army and be killed. Again, the NK and the whites are only powerful when dealing with b-level characters, when it comes to the main characters they have no power. Great writing. 

First of all you keep identifying the NK as the bestest villain.  Why?  What has the show shown to demonstrate that to you.  Stop and examine your thoughts and you'll realize the show that exists in your mind isnt the one that is reality.  The NK was a secondary character.  The Army of the dead was a secondary plotline.  It has never been the focus of the show.  Cersei, Tywin, Joffrey, those have been the villains of the show.  The people who are monsters bc of their deeds.  Not bc of what they are.  The theme has been, and always will be "when you play the game of thrones, you win or you die".  The NK played, he lost.  Hes dead.  Power corrupts.  The real enemy of the show is the Iron Throne itself.

[thrILL!]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I just can't understand how the Whites show one style of combat throughout the battle (swarming their opponents until they're overrun) but don't use that same style against the main characters? Jon, Dany, Jamie, etc were all surrounded at times but the whites got into a single file line to attack them? Um, okay. 

The numbers of the dead is the only glaring inconsistency to me.  There were far more than they ever could've had. Ridiculously exaggerated.  By the time Dany and Jorah were fighting side by side , they were posted up by the fire which helped them defensively.  But even beyond that what do we know numbers to be at the gates and beyond.  We’ve seen Jon survive worse odds.   We don’t know how the NK directs them. Is an all powerful telepath that knows what every dead being is seeing?  They didn’t seem like Return of the Living Dead or walkers who just sense brains or the living and pounce.  Maybe they’re commanded to just throw themselves toward the gates and not turn and focus on specific living humans nearby. It’s just chaos. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

26 minutes ago, malak1 said:

If Bronn kills Jamie or Tyrion, it wouldn’t be a betrayal. He’s been a sellsword since day one.

I think we all know that deep down that's not true. Yes, he's absolutely motivated primarily by self-preservation (which is why he didn't fight for Tyrion against the Mountain), but we've seen him do things that weren't directly tied to monetary motivations. I mean, does anyone actually expect Tyrion NOT to double Cersei's offer anyways? I mean, come on.

17 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Jon and Dany were both surrounded on the battlefield alone, why do whites only swarm b-level characters again? 

Because Jon and Dany have this amazing thing called plot armor that allows them to be attacked one-by-one.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

[Superman(DH23)]

The one issue that I did have was that it did seem like Jaime, Brienne, and Sam were completely overwhelmed.  At least one probably should have died, or dont show them being completely overrun past the point of no return.  That's my one complaint.  Otherwise, I thought it was outstanding. Did a great job of subverting expectations the right way.  I thought that Arya would end up saving Jon.  I thought Bran would go down to the NK and would lead to final climatic battle with Jon, but I totally get the writers choices.

[Heimdallr]

For a TV show like this, I don't care too much about deep lore consistency, detailed timelines, etc.. They need to fudge some things to make it entertaining, or make changes as needed (maybe an actor leaves the show, etc.). My issues aren't with "plot holes" in terms of the overall story or realism.

What bugs me are just the writing issues that are just objectively bad:

 - Brienne, Jaime, Grey Worm, Sam, etc. are shown completely engulfed by wights and looking like they are going to die multiple times. After 1-2 times, the emotional impact is gone and it is meaningless.

 - The fact that none of the major characters is killed or seriously injured makes the whole battle feel sort of hollow. When you show so many characters in terrible situations so many times and nothing ever happens, it just makes me tune out. 

 - Jon sees Sam covered in wights and in desperate need of help, but he makes the choice to continue towards Bran. That has an opportunity to be a huge moment, but instead Sam (and everyone else) is perfectly fine. When decisions like that have no consequences, why bother? 

 - They follow up Theon's redemption (a great moment) with such a boring, pointless death.

 - In a single episode they undid years of building Sansa up as a strong character by having her cower and basically roll over. Why not have her struggle and kill a wight or two, or even just be semi-motivational to the people in the crypt? They let Sansa and Tyrion have a really nice moment and act like they are going to do something, but they just hide somewhere else.

 - They did nothing to explain the NK's motivation or what Bran was doing all battle, and cut one of the most important interactions of the series way too short. Unless they really add a lot more to this story next episode, the whole NK vs 3ER story really fell flat and seems pointless. Bran is one of the most powerful beings on the planet, and does nothing all episode.

 - The build up the white walkers for 8 seasons, and they do literally nothing, and the mythic antagonist dies in a surprise attack (which they did not explain). No fight, no resolution afterward, it is just over.

The directing, acting, effects, music, etc. were all some of the best we have ever seen, but there are so many amateur-level writing issues that just don't make any sense. By the end I just felt so disengaged because the main battle was completely meaningless, and the ending was so obvious and poorly put together.

[NYRaider]

11 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

The numbers of the dead is the only glaring inconsistency to me.  There were far more than they ever could've had. Ridiculously exaggerated.  By the time Dany and Jorah were fighting side by side , they were posted up by the fire which helped them defensively.  But even beyond that what do we know numbers to be at the gates and beyond.  We’ve seen Jon survive worse odds.   We don’t know how the NK directs them. Is an all powerful telepath that knows what every dead being is seeing?  They didn’t seem like Return of the Living Dead or walkers who just sense brains or the living and pounce.  Maybe they’re commanded to just throw themselves toward the gates and not turn and focus on specific living humans nearby. It’s just chaos. 

Which is why they should've taken some time to explain what's going on. I don't need my hand held throughout the story to understand but it'd be nice if we got some explanation after they've been built up for 8 seasons. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Heimdallr said:

For a TV show like this, I don't care too much about deep lore consistency, detailed timelines, etc.. They need to fudge some things to make it entertaining, or make changes as needed (maybe an actor leaves the show, etc.). My issues aren't with "plot holes" in terms of the overall story or realism.

What bugs me are just the writing issues that are just objectively bad:

 - Brienne, Jaime, Grey Worm, Sam, etc. are shown completely engulfed by wights and looking like they are going to die multiple times. After 1-2 times, the emotional impact is gone and it is meaningless.

 - The fact that none of the major characters is killed or seriously injured makes the whole battle feel sort of hollow. When you show so many characters in terrible situations so many times and nothing ever happens, it just makes me tune out. 

 - Jon sees Sam covered in wights and in desperate need of help, but he makes the choice to continue towards Bran. That has an opportunity to be a huge moment, but instead Sam (and everyone else) is perfectly fine. When decisions like that have no consequences, why bother? 

 - They follow up Theon's redemption (a great moment) with such a boring, pointless death.

 - In a single episode they undid years of building Sansa up as a strong character by having her cower and basically roll over. Why not have her struggle and kill a wight or two, or even just be semi-motivational to the people in the crypt? They let Sansa and Tyrion have a really nice moment and act like they are going to do something, but they just hide somewhere else.

 - They did nothing to explain the NK's motivation or what Bran was doing all battle, and cut one of the most important interactions of the series way too short. Unless they really add a lot more to this story next episode, the whole NK vs 3ER story really fell flat and seems pointless. Bran is one of the most powerful beings on the planet, and does nothing all episode.

 - The build up the white walkers for 8 seasons, and they do literally nothing, and they kill a mythic antagonist in a surprise attack (which they did not explain). No fight, no resolution afterward, it is just over.

The directing, acting, effects, music, etc. were all some of the best we have ever seen, but there are so many amateur-level writing issues that just don't make any sense. By the end I just felt so disengaged because the main battle was completely meaningless, and the ending was so obvious and poorly put together.

[Daniel]

43 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

You don't think the Night King, who has a horse that doesn't tire, can track Bran's every movement and can kill a dragon with the flick of his wrist could've/would've caught up to them if killing Bran was his main priority? He easily could've killed the 3ER and then immediately started to pursue Bran and caught up to him within 60-90 seconds. He can track his every freaking movement... Again, if killing Bran was so important to him he would've killed him during all of this. 

Look man, this is pretty definitively explained, I don't know what else to tell you.  They explicitly show how they escape.

38 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Or the show writers were in over their head trying to take the mantel and finish one of the greatest stories ever written. The books will 100% be different than the TV show. The directors didn't even want to work on GOT anymore and got lazy with the writing. 

Lolno.  ASOIAF is outstanding for genre fiction, but it ain't even close to one of the greatest stories ever written.  Martin is a great character writer, and he's excellent with dialogue, but he's not making a landmark of literature.  He's often very heavy-handed with his themes, and a lot of the books get really pulpy in parts.

Plus it seems like the scene at the cave and the holding of the door seem to actually be things Martin came up with, so you can expect a version of this to play out in the books too.  Take it up with Martin, I guess.

[NYRaider]

16 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

First of all you keep identifying the NK as the bestest villain.  Why?  What has the show shown to demonstrate that to you.  Stop and examine your thoughts and you'll realize the show that exists in your mind isnt the one that is reality.  The NK was a secondary character.  The Army of the dead was a secondary plotline.  It has never been the focus of the show.  Cersei, Tywin, Joffrey, those have been the villains of the show.  The people who are monsters bc of their deeds.  Not bc of what they are.  The theme has been, and always will be "when you play the game of thrones, you win or you die".  The NK played, he lost.  Hes dead.  Power corrupts.  The real enemy of the show is the Iron Throne itself.

So they hyped them up since episode 1 because he's a side plot? The freaking tag line for the show is "Winter is Coming." Winter was coming for 8 seasons and is over within an episode? Alrighty then. 

[Heimdallr]

10 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

 

Also, what was the plan with the Dothraki before Melisandre unexpectedly shows up and lights their weapons on fire? They were set to just ride straight at the enemy with steel weapons that are well documented to be completely useless. Huh?

[thrILL!]

You guys keep going around in the same circles that have been explained thoroughly.  Over and over.  

Have at it.

 

 

[NYRaider]

Just now, Daniel said:

Look man, this is pretty definitively explained, I don't know what else to tell you.  They explicitly show how they escape.

1

They escape because the Night King didn't pursue them. Bran wasn't important enough to pursue then but now he's so important that the NK exposes himself leading to his death. Great writing, I'll tell ya what. 

[MakeDenverGreatAgain]

15 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

First of all you keep identifying the NK as the bestest villain.  Why?  What has the show shown to demonstrate that to you.  Stop and examine your thoughts and you'll realize the show that exists in your mind isnt the one that is reality.  The NK was a secondary character.  The Army of the dead was a secondary plotline.  It has never been the focus of the show.  Cersei, Tywin, Joffrey, those have been the villains of the show.  The people who are monsters bc of their deeds.  Not bc of what they are.  The theme has been, and always will be "when you play the game of thrones, you win or you die".  The NK played, he lost.  Hes dead.  Power corrupts.  The real enemy of the show is the Iron Throne itself.

This is wrong on a lot of levels, the Game of Thrones is SECONDARY and INSIGNIFICANT compared to the battle for humanity. You also contradict yourself by saying that the NK played, and lost. No- he didn;t give a rat's *** about the Iron Throne. Literally since the first scene of the first episode, they've been building to this point. Jon even makes this point when they're in Kings Landing trying to get Cersei to commit her forces. That who rules the iron throne is insignificant if the NK wins. The GOT is a secondary plot line.