Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[Calvert28]

1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

You don't see how a guy who literally can't die because god needs him for part of the story is plot armor. Are you ******* kidding.

In the books there is no plot armor to speak of that can be seen with him. He essentially abandons the Lord of Light and is basically going around bringing people to the Grey Lady to be killed. He's lost his way so to speak./

[mse326]

1 minute ago, sunnygsm said:

And they had overwhelming numbers. To the extent that the Dothraki and unsullied, who are far better fighters than Pod/Sam, got wiped out. They should have died because they showed characters getting overwhelmed by numbers multiple times. I would have been ok if they didn't repeatedly show the characters in hopeless situations (I e., Surrounded by wights).

They showed Sam surrounded twice. Once he was saved by Ed the next all he had to do was hang on like 2 minutes until Arya took out the Night King. Both times they showed him in danger they showed others bailing him out. Not him winning.

[sunnygsm]

Two minutes is a long time when dying only takes a couple of seconds. It might not plot armour per se. It's more like fan service armour. I'd be surprised if D&D didn't wrap this up with happy endings for a number of side characters. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

5 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

In the books there is no plot armor to speak of that can be seen with him. He essentially abandons the Lord of Light and is basically going around bringing people to the Grey Lady to be killed. He's lost his way so to speak./

Except for the part where he's killed 6 times and brought back to life because R'hllor still needs him. And he makes at least some good on that revives Catlyn Stark into Lady Stoneheart. But I'm sure you love that part of the story, right? You want to talk pragmatism, Lady Stoneheart should never exist, since Beric should have died over and over again but literally for the sake of storytelling he was brought back to revive her.

But somehow that never comes up when people talk plot armor or realism.

[ramssuperbowl99]

10 minutes ago, mse326 said:

They showed Sam surrounded twice. Once he was saved by Ed the next all he had to do was hang on like 2 minutes until Arya took out the Night King. Both times they showed him in danger they showed others bailing him out. Not him winning.

Maybe we could all agree - being revived by a god for the sake of storytelling isn't plot armor, but fighting for 2 minutes despite being a fatty is - so let's say Sam was killed and Lady Mellisandre revived him off screen.

Done. We can shut up about it now.

[sunnygsm]

So on the topic of the next week or more. What do people think the major showdowns will be (other than cleganebowl)?

[Calvert28]

7 minutes ago, mse326 said:

They did explain. Missandei corrected the Prince who was Promised prophesy telling them the word in it actual language had no gender. It could be Prince OR Princess. 

Prince or Princess, not figuratively either. Arya is neither. Also called the Son of Fire, Warrior of Light, all of which are indicative. Jon is a warrior of Light, fighting the for the good cause and has been since Season 1. Dany a daughter of Fire. The comet that heralds her birth with her dragons. All of these things  have only ever been applied to those two.

Milessandre herself sees a great Darkness inside Arya. In the episode where she says that she's going to close some blue eyes that the writers want to harp on now about their "genius" writing and people are actually falling for it. Arya since her father was killed has alwways been depicted as dark, brooding, vengful. She prefers to stay out of sight, not lead people, just wants vengeance not justice. She is not anything that would indicate her being as part of the prophecy.

[Daniel]

17 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

And in the books there are 3 mythical hero figures; the Last Hero, the Prince Who Was Promised, and Azor Ahai. The show has merged these into one, and the common thought is that they are the same person, but Dany/Jon/Arya could be that trio.

They're the same in the books too man.  Different groups of people refer to them as those different names.

1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Maybe we could all agree - being revived by a god for the sake of storytelling isn't plot armor, but fighting for 2 minutes despite being a fatty is - so let's say Sam was killed and Lady Mellisandre revived him off screen.

Done. We can shut up about it now.

I don't think you have a good grasp of what plot armor is.  Plot armor isn't a character not dying.  It's putting said character in a situation where it strains the suspension of disbelief that they didn't die.

That's why when you have a scene where a character is piled on by 30 stabbing wights, then cut away, then show them later as fine again, that's plot armor.  A character surviving isn't necessarily plot armor.

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

My assumption was she was in a tree nearby already when the NK entered the woods, waiting for him.

We saw the White Walker's hair move when she (presumably) ran past him.

The jump was for cinematic effect.  Nothing more.

[Daniel]

Just now, seminoles1 said:

We saw the White Walker's hair move when she (presumably) ran past him.

I did not see that at all.  Good eye.

[mse326]

2 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Prince or Princess, not figuratively either. Arya is neither. Also called the Son of Fire, Warrior of Light, all of which are indicative. Jon is a warrior of Light, fighting the for the good cause and has been since Season 1. Dany a daughter of Fire. The comet that heralds her birth with her dragons. All of these things  have only ever been applied to those two.

Milessandre herself sees a great Darkness inside Arya. In the episode where she says that she's going to close some blue eyes that the writers want to harp on now about their "genius" writing and people are actually falling for it. Arya since her father was killed has alwways been depicted as dark, brooding, vengful. She prefers to stay out of sight, not lead people, just wants vengeance not justice. She is not anything that would indicate her being as part of the prophecy.

Even so you are assuming the prophecy is not just correct but 100% correct as well as it's interpretation. But they have shown it to be at the very least misinterpreted a number of times. And they have shown at least two separate "gods" capable of magic (Lord of Light and God of Death). So either both exist, or are the same. If different then there is no reason the Lord of Light and the prophecy need to be the one to come to the rescue. It doesn't have to be true. If they are the same Arya was the only once to actually train to serve the God so can indeed fulfill the prophecy in a way that hadn't been thought of.

[PARROTHEAD]

9 minutes ago, sunnygsm said:

Two minutes is a long time when dying only takes a couple of seconds. It might not plot armour per se. It's more like fan service armour. I'd be surprised if D&D didn't wrap this up with happy endings for a number of side characters. 

They allowed total loss of control of storytelling for fan servicing and action intensity.

Its like the entire fireside chat the week before was a great setup reduced to a total irrelevant piece now ruined. And theyve basically reset the entire story to the point Jon arrived at Dragonstone asking for help. The entire episode beyond the wall didnt need to happen. All fan service to make heros look like heros instead of giving the political drama expected storytelling GRRM was delivering.

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, Calvert28 said:

Again this is where "details" matter.

Hard stone floors, and yet a drop of blood hitting the ground alerts these things to movement. They also heard or sensed heard her stabbing the other wight and came charging through the door.

So how does jumping from branch to branch with leaves which would cause noise and movement not to mention going across the snow not alert to any wandering Wight>? Stone floors help silence and she was still found. Now she's moving out in nature with a billion different things that will cause sound.

The Night King called off his men.  Pretty obvious.  They do what he says; that's been shown throughout the series.  If he says "Don't move" to the wights, then they aren't moving until he says otherwise.

[Calvert28]

 

5 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Except for the part where he's killed 6 times and brought back to life because R'hllor still needs him. And he makes at least some good on that revives Catlyn Stark into Lady Stoneheart. But I'm sure you love that part of the story, right? You want to talk pragmatism, Lady Stoneheart should never exist, since Beric should have died over and over again but literally for the sake of storytelling he was brought back to revive her.

But somehow that never comes up when people talk plot armor or realism.

That's who I'm talking about. Lady Stoneheart sorry. Thoros believe the Lord of Light still needs him because that magic he's using has never worked before. Yet it's explained in the series that all these magical rituals that have not had any powers forr a century all of a sudden start working again ever since Dany's eggs hatch. In particular they demonstrate this when she watches a Pyromancer make a fire ladder and climb up it. Then she learns that this wasn't even possible for him  a year ago and he could barely even conjure it, and he has only ever been able to do it since the dragons were born again. It's the same with Thoros. And Milessandre even remarks how much stronger her magic is now, and grows even stronger when she's near the Wall.

So there is no actual plot armor there yet that we can see. Just some fire spell bringing him back to life that Thoros thinks means something else entirely, yet the more he does it. The more we see the noble Beric lose both his honor and his humanity. Even Thoros is scared of him and the others now.

[Heimdallr]

10 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

They allowed total loss of control of storytelling for fan servicing and action intensity.

Its like the entire fireside chat the week before was a great setup reduced to a total irrelevant piece now ruined. And theyve basically reset the entire story to the point Jon arrived at Dragonstone asking for help. The entire episode beyond the wall didnt need to happen. All fan service to make heros look like heros instead of giving the political drama expected storytelling GRRM was delivering.

When the directors come out and say the only reason they had Arya kill the NK is because nobody would expect it, there is absolutely no reason to dig into the lore or care about the story. All they care about is making the casual viewes ooh and aah.

They took one of the deepest and layered stories/worlds in modern literature, and turned it into a soap opera. The last episode might as well just be a 60 minute porn scene.