JonStark Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Calvert28 said: Do you see the point? The wall it was hinted had the same magic as the tree did where it would not let the Walkers past. Without a dragon, they would not have passed, Dany would have stayed in the south and the realm would not have been in danger. Everyone agreed that the episode Beyond the Wall was horrible when it gift wrapped the walkers a way south. So tell me how many of the events of this show would have came to pass had Jon just stayed dead? He was nothing more then a catalyst when he was brought back to life. Hence Murphy's Law. Except marked Bran crossing the wall was what took the magic away, just like marked Bran allowed the Night King into that tree he was never able to get into. But go ahead just keep making up random things as usual. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, skywlker32 said: They didn't show the dead trying to pass any other way, so how was it demonstrated that it was the ONLY way? The fact that they didn't try. 8000 years and they never got through. But what happened as soon as he got his Ice Dragon? They made a B line for the wall. 3 minutes ago, skywlker32 said: It was the easiest way, but maybe not the ONLY way. We know that the dead could reanimate on the other side of the wall, as that happened with the interaction when Jon saved Jeor Mormont from the wight. We don't know whether the NK can cross himself though. Sure they could reanimate but you are talking about trying to fool the NW into letting thousands of them to the other side of the wall dead and then reanimate them there. The wall itself is magical and wouldn't let him cross. 3 minutes ago, skywlker32 said: If you want to blame anyone for the NK trying to cross the wall, why not blame 3ER because if accurate, that was the NK main purpose. Does the NK even attempt to invade Westeros if 3ER stays north of the wall? Main purpose, not the only purpose though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JonStark said: Except marked Bran crossing the wall was what took the magic away, Then he would have pursued Bran as soon as he went south which didn't happen. But keep making things up like you do anyways, I mean do you even think about this stuff before you post it? Edited May 24, 2019 by Calvert28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywlker32 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: The fact that they didn't try. 8000 years and they never got through. But what happened as soon as he got his Ice Dragon? They made a B line for the wall. Sure they could reanimate but you are talking about trying to fool the NW into letting thousands of them to the other side of the wall dead and then reanimate them there. The wall itself is magical and wouldn't let him cross. Main purpose, not the only purpose though. Again, you are making a lot of assumptions and taking them as fact. The Dragon was the EASY way, maybe not the ONLY way. If Jon isn't there, maybe things take longer, but there is still a white walker invasion later that wipes out everyone. What we DO know is that Jon was able to bring together to forces necessary to defeat the NK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Then he would have pursued Bran as soon as he went south which didn't happen. But keep making things up like you do anyways, I mean do you even think about this stuff before you post it? He did pursue Bran... he went right for him in episode 3 while there were plenty more people alive that he went past. It’s not like killing Bran would kill the entire living army like it is with the dead. He chose to go directly to the Godswood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, skywlker32 said: Again, you are making a lot of assumptions and taking them as fact. The Dragon was the EASY way, maybe not the ONLY way. If Jon isn't there, maybe things take longer, but there is still a white walker invasion later that wipes out everyone. What we DO know is that Jon was able to bring together to forces necessary to defeat the NK. So 8000 years of collecting bodies for his army and the NK never found an easier way to get through? Says who? You're the one making assumptions now when the NK never even attempted to go to the wall until he got a dragon. So there is no reason to think it would have ever happened considering we had not heard of them in the show or in the books even trying to get through until the events of GOT. Again 8000 years is a very long time for them to not find a way through. That's the key number you keep overlooking. And it's strange that around the same timeline that the dragons are born again that the WW's are deciding to make their move and their presence known as if it was all planned perfectly for an eventual show down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, Calvert28 said: So 8000 years of collecting bodies for his army and the NK never found an easier way to get through? Says who? You're the one making assumptions now when the NK never even attempted to go to the wall until he got a dragon. So there is no reason to think it would have ever happened considering we had not heard of them in the show or in the books even trying to get through until the events of GOT. Again 8000 years is a very long time for them to not find a way through. That's the key number you keep overlooking. And it's strange that around the same timeline that the dragons are born again that the WW's are deciding to make their move and their presence known as if it was all planned perfectly for an eventual show down. It took 8000 years for someone to get marked and cross the wall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 minute ago, JonStark said: He did pursue Bran... he went right for him in episode 3 while there were plenty more people alive that he went past. It’s not like killing Bran would kill the entire living army like it is with the dead. He chose to go directly to the Godswood. ....................Really? I am talking about Bran moving south of the wall. If Bran took the magic away why did he not immediately make a siege on the wall as soon as Bran got through considering he has a freaking homing beacon on him and knows where he's at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 minute ago, JonStark said: It took 8000 years for someone to get marked and cross the wall... Interesting theory. But if he was hell bent on getting to Bran as he suggested in Episode 2. Then he would have already besieged it there is nothing to suggest the 3ER was the reason for the Magic of the Wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: ....................Really? I am talking about Bran moving south of the wall. If Bran took the magic away why did he not immediately make a siege on the wall as soon as Bran got through considering he has a freaking homing beacon on him and knows where he's at. You really don’t see the connection in this? - Bran gets marked in tree - Night King able to get into tree he never has been able to before - Bran crosses wall - Night King crosses wall Edited May 24, 2019 by JonStark Was being a jerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 You know what @Calvert28 I’m going to say I can see it from your perspective, although I strongly disagree, and end it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JonStark said: You really don’t see the connection in this? - Bran gets marked in tree - Night King able to get into tree he never has been able to before - Bran crosses wall - Night King crosses wall You have to be just trying to be difficult. No one is that oblivious. Oh does he now? Didn't they say Season 7 takes place over months at a time or like a year? Bran crosses the wall Episode 1 and no more pursuing until the end of the season. Why? If he was so hell bent on getting him? Your theory has merit, then the NK would have made a B line for that wall sensing the magic was gone. Instead it seemed as if he waited for Jon or something else to arrive (like a dragon) and then go straight for the wall. Edited May 24, 2019 by Calvert28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Oh does he now? Didn't they say Season 7 takes place over months at a time or like a year? Bran crosses the wall Episode 1 and no more pursuing until the end of the season. Why? If he was so hell bent on getting him? Your theory has merit, then the NK would have made a B line for that wall sensing the magic was gone. Instead it seemed as if he waited for Jon or something else to arrive (like a dragon) and then go straight for the wall. If you think he knew a dragon was coming then I could see it. Maybe it took both. However they have never shown the NK as some master strategist, so holding out until the inevitable dragons shows up seems like it could be a stretch. I honestly think that he doesn’t get past the wall without Bran crossing first, dragon or not, but I do think that he needed both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, JonStark said: If you think he knew a dragon was coming then I could see it. Maybe it took both. However they have never shown the NK as some master strategist, so holding out until the inevitable dragons shows up seems like it could be a stretch. I threw an idea out because I don't know. Quote I honestly think that he doesn’t get past the wall without Bran crossing first, dragon or not, but I do think that he needed both. He definitely needed the dragon. At least IMO, as soon as he got Viserion he automatically dropped everything he was doing and decided to go south as if he finally had what he needed. But that goes back to my original point, if Arya was all it took to finish him off with some valaryian steel. And all the other WW's with the steel or dragon glass then Jon was the catalyst for bringing about the worst events in the show. If he had just stayed dead, Dany as shown in Episode 5 with Drogon could easily wipe them off the face of the map. She could have literally surrounded the city like they planned in Episode 5 and wait them out because we already know the other 6 Kingdoms were not going to follow except out of fear and Dany delivered a new king of fear even Cersei couldn't deal with. Jon was the walking talking version of Murphy's Law. It's just as likely Ramsey never gets his hands on Sansa again and they just go into hiding, Arya still kills Cersei instead of trying to go find Jon. And the events unfold as Dany not needing the dragons to take KL. He was brought back for nothing more other then to advance the show and as soon as D&D got their contract they quickly brought it to a close. Edited May 24, 2019 by Calvert28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: I threw an idea out because I don't know. He definitely needed the dragon. At least IMO, as soon as he got Viserion he automatically dropped everything he was doing and decided to go south as if he finally had what he needed. But that goes back to my original point, if Arya was all it took to finish him off with some valaryian steel. And all the other WW's with the steel or dragon glass then Jon was the catalyst for bringing about the worst events in the show. If he had just stayed dead, Dany as shown in Episode 5 with Drogon could easily wipe them off the face of the map. She could have literally surrounded the city like they planned in Episode 5 and wait them out because we already know the other 6 Kingdoms were not going to follow except out of fear and Dany delivered a new king of fear even Cersei couldn't deal with. Jon was the walking talking version of Murphy's Law. It's just as likely Ramsey never gets his hands on Sansa again and they just go into hiding, Arya still kills Cersei instead of trying to go find Jon. And the events unfold as Dany not needing the dragons to take KL. He was brought back for nothing more other then to advance the show and as soon as D&D got their contract they quickly brought it to a close. Even with Jon dead though, you still have a marked Bran and the Night King building an army. He would’ve found a way south eventually (maybe some giant spiders, could be a number of ways in a fantasy world). Im still curious about how you think the wildlings would get south without Jon though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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