5 UP / 5 DOWN. Disaster in Ohio.

[Bobikus]

5 hours ago, Livewire said:

I will never understand  Tomlin's refusal to let RBs get a breather here or there. He's done this from the very beginning of his tenure. Conner was very good but he didn't do much in the fourth quarter and OT. Here's a player who hasn't gotten a workload like that since he was in college. Sure he's young but he simply isn't used to that many carries. Would a fresh Ridley coming in for a series make a difference? I don't know and I understand he's had fumble issues so maybe Tomlin didn't want to risk it in the rainy weather but I hope Conner doesn't get run into the ground by the middle of the year and has nothing left in the tank the rest of the way.

Good to see that Burns decided to pick up where Mitchell left off on being the hot tempered moron of the secondary. More discipline issues as usual.

 

Yeah, I don't see any reason why Ridley couldn't have gotten like 5-10 touches.

[JLambert58]

Went back and watched the game after the fact.  I'm sure it wasn't as bad for my health already knowing what transpired.

Everyone's covered most of the consensus ups/downs.  I'll just throw out a few thoughts:

Conner is not Bell but I thought he played well and with a lot of passion  (agree with @jebrick and @Livewire that Tomlin never learns when it comes to pulling out the #1 RB to spell him during the game or when the game looks like it is well in hand.

Matakevich had a good game on ST

Bud Dupree looked better than what he did last year.  Had a sack/FF and a second FF which was called back on that close offsides penalty.  Thought his hand usage was better and shockingly saw him start outside and then fight inside to get to the QB (which actually worked)  Had some good pressures and a batted pass.  Not a GREAT performance, but better than usual.  Keep that progress coming. 

Watt was an animal.  He gave Chris Hubbard all he could handle all game long.  @FourThreeMafia have to disagree that his stats were not as good as his performance (paraphrasing)  He could have easily had 1-2 more sacks imo.  And of course, the game-saving blocked kick.   Thought he showed serious star quality and will be a stalwart of the defense for many years to come. 

Vince Williams, though maybe not THE MOST athletic and talented guy on the field, shows great heart, energy and leadership.  He's a guy I want out there battling with this defense.  Good game by him.

Sean Davis looks like he took the #21 and is starting to believe he's Sean Taylor.  Liked what I saw from him.  INT called back on penalty.   Not sure if it's the new pads, uniform or what, but he looks like he packed on a bit of muscle. 

Ben was not great overall, but he made enough good plays that I'm not overly concerned with him moving forward this season.  Glad he got that stinker out of the way early. 

They must really like Chuks Okorafor, had him out there doing that extra lineman/ TE thing that Hubbard did last year.  Might be a really solid pick yet.

Was wondering what the hell kind of play call that was pulling DeCastro to try and block Garrett on the left side.  ??  Recipe for disaster. 

Defense looks promising.  Need to get Haden back.  He made some nice plays out there, as did most of the secondary.   Though that man coverage is looking shaky at times when guys have no sense of where the ball is.   Got to get that cleaned up.  

Not panicked, but this was a huge wake up call for the team.  Can't play 3 1/2 quarters.  Have to close when you've got the other team on the ropes.  

 

[43M]

1 hour ago, JLambert58 said:

Watt was an animal.  He gave Chris Hubbard all he could handle all game long.  @FourThreeMafia have to disagree that his stats were not as good as his performance (paraphrasing)  He could have easily had 1-2 more sacks imo.  And of course, the game-saving blocked kick.   Thought he showed serious star quality and will be a stalwart of the defense for many years to come. 

He was very impressive, but 3 of his sacks were extremely cheap, and he was going up against Chris Hubbard, who I had a feeling wouldnt be nearly as good in Cleveland.

I am extremely excited to see what Watt can do going forward, but he had a pretty big game in his debut vs Cleveland last year, and he cooled off a good bit.    As good as he was yesterday, I cant put alot of stock into one game.

[warfelg]

6 hours ago, JLambert58 said:

Went back and watched the game after the fact.  I'm sure it wasn't as bad for my health already knowing what transpired.

Everyone's covered most of the consensus ups/downs.  I'll just throw out a few thoughts:

Conner is not Bell but I thought he played well and with a lot of passion  (agree with @jebrick and @Livewire that Tomlin never learns when it comes to pulling out the #1 RB to spell him during the game or when the game looks like it is well in hand.

 

I'd agree with this 100%.  It's really absurd to not give Ridley a few touches or let Samuels take in a snap or two.

Quote

Matakevich had a good game on ST

Bud Dupree looked better than what he did last year.  Had a sack/FF and a second FF which was called back on that close offsides penalty.  Thought his hand usage was better and shockingly saw him start outside and then fight inside to get to the QB (which actually worked)  Had some good pressures and a batted pass.  Not a GREAT performance, but better than usual.  Keep that progress coming. 

Watt was an animal.  He gave Chris Hubbard all he could handle all game long.  @FourThreeMafia have to disagree that his stats were not as good as his performance (paraphrasing)  He could have easily had 1-2 more sacks imo.  And of course, the game-saving blocked kick.   Thought he showed serious star quality and will be a stalwart of the defense for many years to come. 

Agreed on all of these. I think flipping the two of them helped Dupree by being on his natural side.  Watt's going to get to go against a weaker blocker in most cases.

Quote

Vince Williams, though maybe not THE MOST athletic and talented guy on the field, shows great heart, energy and leadership.  He's a guy I want out there battling with this defense.  Good game by him.

Sean Davis looks like he took the #21 and is starting to believe he's Sean Taylor.  Liked what I saw from him.  INT called back on penalty.   Not sure if it's the new pads, uniform or what, but he looks like he packed on a bit of muscle. 

Ben was not great overall, but he made enough good plays that I'm not overly concerned with him moving forward this season.  Glad he got that stinker out of the way early. 

They must really like Chuks Okorafor, had him out there doing that extra lineman/ TE thing that Hubbard did last year.  Might be a really solid pick yet.

Was wondering what the hell kind of play call that was pulling DeCastro to try and block Garrett on the left side.  ??  Recipe for disaster. 

Defense looks promising.  Need to get Haden back.  He made some nice plays out there, as did most of the secondary.   Though that man coverage is looking shaky at times when guys have no sense of where the ball is.   Got to get that cleaned up.  

Not panicked, but this was a huge wake up call for the team.  Can't play 3 1/2 quarters.  Have to close when you've got the other team on the ropes.  

Taking this on as a chunk:

Disagree on Williams.  Bostic was more impressive.

Sean Davis did look better.  I had a feeling moving him away from the LOS an allowing him to see the field was gonna help.

Ben wasn't just not great....he was terrible.  We got away with it unlike in the past.

I like working Okorafor in this way.  That's the way Hubbard got worked in.

That was some strange way of helping.  Couldn't keep Jesse in for a play to help?

Agreed on the defense part.

I feel like certain guys got gassed by the 4th quarter.  Conner, Villy, Gilbert, Heyward, Tuitt most notably.  Just couldn't keep playing.  Cant keep that up.  Ben clearly looked like someone that didn't play much in PS and looked like he sat out camp too.

[warfelg]

Quick observation on the game:

It looked like it took Big Al and Gilbert some time to get used to blocking for Conner’s running style and for Ben to adjust to running Play Action and the PRO with Conner too. I think those three are so used to looking at things differently because of Bell’s style that they were a little out of sync. Al and Gilbert were still trying to wall off rather than just plow forwards, and Ben was reading the LBs rather than the DL. I noticed a few times when there was a gaping hole and Ben pulled it out to throw a quick pass where a LB was. 

If only there was this series of 4 games that don’t matter where you play another team so you can work on this. 

[JLambert58]

6 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

He was very impressive, but 3 of his sacks were extremely cheap, and he was going up against Chris Hubbard, who I had a feeling wouldnt be nearly as good in Cleveland.

I am extremely excited to see what Watt can do going forward, but he had a pretty big game in his debut vs Cleveland last year, and he cooled off a good bit.    As good as he was yesterday, I cant put alot of stock into one game.

Yeah Hubbard struggled, not surprising.  He was a good backup/ spot starter.  A guy to throw a bunch of money at to be your starting RT?  Not sure about that. 

I'll chalk up the fast start for Watt last year and this year to being healthy and not worn down from a long, grueling season.  I think the big difference now is that Watt has played a full NFL season and now knows what's required for the long haul.  Yes, it's Cleveland, but I feel very optimistic about his future based on that performance. 

[JLambert58]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Disagree on Williams.  Bostic was more impressive.

Didn't say Bostic wasn't impressive.  Thought he looked really good.  Exactly what we wanted when we signed him.  What do you disagree with about Williams?

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Ben wasn't just not great....he was terrible.  We got away with it unlike in the past.

We can agree to disagree.  Ben made some bad decisions and had miscommunication (par for the course) but he made some good throws as well.   I wouldn't agree he was terrible.   Sub-par, rusty, maybe, hot and cold, but I thought there were SOME positives out of the performance.   Obviously a stat line like that is UGLY, but I think he'll be MUCH better in the next few weeks.  (When the end comes, it's going to be worse than Marino)

 

 

[warfelg]

6 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

Didn't say Bostic wasn't impressive.  Thought he looked really good.  Exactly what we wanted when we signed him.  What do you disagree with about Williams?

We can agree to disagree.  Ben made some bad decisions and had miscommunication (par for the course) but he made some good throws as well.   I wouldn't agree he was terrible.   Sub-par, rusty, maybe, hot and cold, but I thought there were SOME positives out of the performance.   Obviously a stat line like that is UGLY, but I think he'll be MUCH better in the next few weeks.  (When the end comes, it's going to be worse than Marino)

 

 

The leadership part. Playing high school lacrosse we had this “Triple H award”. No not after the wrestler. Stood for Heart, Hustle, Hempfield (school name). Was for the player that leaves it on the field, runs out everything no matter the score, and showed pride in the uniform. To me that’s what Williams is. Heyward and Watt are the leaders of the defense. 

 

As for Ben it wasn’t just the throwing. Decision making was terrible too. Checked out of plays poorly. Made some poor reads in the RPO. Wasn’t getting the offense in and out of huddles well. After the roughing call it’s like he took for granted that this was the Browns and it would all go our way. 

Where I could see the bad day coming: 2nd or 3rd series. Conner had the 8 yard pickup in 1st down. Then they try the deep shot to Hunter. 3rd & 2. You can see Ben check out of something. Held the ball in Conners gut and the blocking would have been an easy 1st down. Pulls it out, rushes the throw to Brown, incomplete. The Browns basically conceded the 1st down to stop a big gain 2 plays in a town and Ben bit on it. 

[MOSteelers56]

15 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Burns outplayed Sutton. 

I thought he was in pretty good position on the Gordon TD. 

[Dcash4]

One thing that did concern me without Bell is the pass protection -- which was pretty poor on Sunday. Im not looking at this as a sky is falling type of thing, but it concerned me before we played games and one game in we saw what I was worried about. 

Bell isnt only a great pass blocker, but he is also someone that doesn't allow teams to blitz and attack QBs -- especially with Brown on the field. You want to send an extra linebacker? Great -- choose to leave Bell open or choose to drop a safety and play single coverage on Brown. Pick your poison. 

Connor had a nice day through the air, but he was largely wide open. If he can keep winning in the passing game, maybe some of that attention gets pushed to him, like it does Bell. 

Last year in week 1 against the Gregg Williams Browns - 1 Sack and 1 QB Hit. This year: 4 sacks and 5 QB Hits. Their defense is better, but that's a significant change. 

Again -- 1 terrible week isn't the be all end all, but this is something I was concerned about going into Bell missing games and it immediately showed up against an aggressive defense. Just something to monitor going forward. 

[JLambert58]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

The leadership part. Playing high school lacrosse we had this “Triple H award”. No not after the wrestler. Stood for Heart, Hustle, Hempfield (school name). Was for the player that leaves it on the field, runs out everything no matter the score, and showed pride in the uniform. To me that’s what Williams is. Heyward and Watt are the leaders of the defense. 

Leadership is setting the tone and that's what Williams does imo.  Cam and Watt also fit that category.   Those guys help the defense become a cohesive unit.

I don't see why they can't give the offensive starters 1-2 series in the first and second pre-season games.  Let the entire dress rehearsal for the season be half of the 3rd preseason game?  Doesn't seem to be enough prep to get these guys in sync for Week 1.  

[Livewire]

So Tomlin and Smith decided it was a good idea to play Haden,  who's been injury prone, on special teams and that's when he hurt his hamstring. Smart coaching decision guys. Really smart.

[3rivers]

6 hours ago, Livewire said:

So Tomlin and Smith decided it was a good idea to play Haden,  who's been injury prone, on special teams and that's when he hurt his hamstring. Smart coaching decision guys. Really smart.

worst coaching decision. Next they will ask AB to play ST and then Bell when he returns. Might as well put DDC or Gilbert out there too, why not?

[turtle28]

Ups

1. James Conner

2. The pass rush from the OLBs, especially Watt

3. Pass defense 

4. Cameron Sutton with the int

5. Run blocking from the OL

DOWNS

1. Ben, he was awful

2. Run defense

3. Jesse James’s drop which led to one of Ben’s ints 

4.Hand injury to David Decastro

5.  Boswell missing the FG

[turtle28]

On 9/11/2018 at 9:19 PM, 3rivers said:

worst coaching decision. Next they will ask AB to play ST and then Bell when he returns. Might as well put DDC or Gilbert out there too, why not?

Agreed, bad decision