2019 Draft Discussion

[MacReady]

Just now, cannondale said:

Every excuse in the books can be made for a WR early, but the fact is we have 5 guys who are already locks if they don't crap the bed. 3 of the 5 were rookies last year so a big jump in productivity can reasonably be expected from those guys. With a Pro Bowler leading the way, and glaring needs elsewhere, I'm just not seeing it. 

WR - The Glamour Position. 

Never forget Packer fans wanted Roddy White and were upset with Aaron Rodgers.
Never forget Packer fans wanted Chad Jackson and were devastated that we traded the 36th overall pick to the Patriots, who drafted Chad Jackson and all we got frickin Greg Jennings.
Never forget Devente Adams was a bust and we should have drafted Latimer.
John Ross would be a steal at 29th overall.

When looking at ALL first round receivers in their first year, MVS had more receptions in his rookie year than 13/31 first round receivers.

His ranks compared to first round receivers drafted since 2010:

Receptions: 18/31.
Yards: 13/31
YPC: 7/31

Marquez Valdes-Scantling is a got damn star and we're acting like he's Jeff Janis. 

 

 

[{Family Ghost}]

15 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Marquez Valdes-Scantling is a got damn star and we're acting like he's Jeff Janis. 

 

 

Jeez .. he's a star!  I hope you are right, but he could easily be a buster as well.  He had a pathetic 5 game stretch in the 2nd half of the season where he had 7 receptions for 61 yds. and managed just 21 receptions for 212 yds in the final 8 games combined.

[Leader]

55 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I'd burn a second for Adderly...or CGJ.  I'd happily burn our third for Savage, Hooker or Rapp.

I"m a "no" on Thornhill, Abram and Thompson.  Though I can probably be talked into Thornhill.

Well.....based on these rankings:

1.  Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, Florida   -   Round Grade: Mid 1st
2.  Deionte Thompson, Alabama   -   Round Grade: Early 2
3.  Nasir Adderley, Delaware   -   Round Grade: Early 2
4.  Juan Thornhill, Virginia   -   Round Grade: Mid 2
5.  Darnell Savage, Maryland   -   Round Grade: Mid 2
6. Amani Hooker, Iowa   -   Round Grade: Mid 2
7. Taylor Rapp, Washington   -   Round Grade: Late 2
8. Ugochukwu Amadi, Oregon   -   Round Grade: Late 2
9. Johnathan Abram, Mississippi State  -  Round Grade: Late 3
10. Mike Edwards, Kentucky  -  Round Grade: Mid 3

We'd have to burn a first (#30) on Adderley - or drop back a few picks to nab him - cause I dont think he'll last till 44.

44 is more the range for:

4.  Juan Thornhill, Virginia   -   Round Grade: Mid 2
5.  Darnell Savage, Maryland   -   Round Grade: Mid 2
6. Amani Hooker, Iowa   -   Round Grade: Mid 2

So - you willing to burn a first on Adderley - or a #2 on Savage, Hooker or Rapp - who would be gone by our third @75?   

 

[cannondale]

I'm thinking the 2nd for a safety and the 3rd for a TE might be the sweet spots.

[Norm]

https://youtu.be/fC_q9KPczAg

[Arthur Penske]

50 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

WR - The Glamour Position. 

Never forget Packer fans wanted Roddy White and were upset with Aaron Rodgers.
Never forget Packer fans wanted Chad Jackson and were devastated that we traded the 36th overall pick to the Patriots, who drafted Chad Jackson and all we got frickin Greg Jennings.
Never forget Devente Adams was a bust and we should have drafted Latimer.
John Ross would be a steal at 29th overall.

When looking at ALL first round receivers in their first year, MVS had more receptions in his rookie year than 13/31 first round receivers.

His ranks compared to first round receivers drafted since 2010:

Receptions: 18/31.
Yards: 13/31
YPC: 7/31

Marquez Valdes-Scantling is a got damn star and we're acting like he's Jeff Janis. 

 

 

Agree aside from the Chad Jackson generalization. Some fans like him, but people were very high on Jennings too. Especially after this training camp IIRC. It was apparent he was going to be good very quick. That's the same vibe I get from MVS. And yes MVS's start to his career is underappreciated or underestimated by Packer fans, writers, and national pundits.

[Victor1124]

22 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

I still don't know why everybody's so hung up on receiver.  Gerronimo Allison had 5 catches for 15 yards .5 touchdowns per start before he got hurt last year. 

Davante Adams
Gerronimo Allison
MVS
ESB
Moore
Kumerow

We do not need a receiver. 

If you draft a receiver in one or even two, you're essentially giving up on both ESB and MVS developing into a starter when both have shown they have more than enough potential to not only be a starter, but even turn into star wideouts. 

Some positions you can never have too much of.

You can never have too many DL, EDGE or defensive backs.  You can never have too many healthy OL. 

With WR though?  Taking a WR in one or two guarantees three of seven high-potential receivers are not on the field. 

5 OL play every single play.
DL and EDGE rotate into the game more than any other position groups.

How often are four receivers on the field at a time? 

 

I can agree with this when it comes to an outside receiver. I find it strange when people constantly mock us guys like Metcalf, Harry, Butler, etc. Where I disagree is slot WR. I really think we need a dynamic slot type to hopefully take the offense to another level. With that being said, the only guys I'm really hung up on would be AJ Brown and to a lesser extent, if a guy like Andy Isabella fell to the third. 

I do think MVS can become a solid #2 and ESB can maybe be a solid #3 but that isn't even close to a guarantee. Those two guys could easily be a solid #3 and #4. I like those guys but saying they have shown they have potential to be star wideouts is pretty aggressive, especially with ESB. I also like Allison but he has one year left and is coming off a season ending injury, J'mon Moore hasn't shown much and besides a nice preseason plus some praise from Rodgers, Kumerow hasn't either. 

Look no further than last season when Allison and Cobb went down early and we had to rely on our #4 and #5 wideouts. I would be very happy with Adams, Brown, and MVS being our top 3 wideouts with ESB being a legit #4. 

Not saying he will but let's say the Packers think AJ Brown could have a JuJu Smith-Schuster type impact, do you really not draft a guy like that because of ESB or MVS?  I like your optimism on what we have but I don't think we should pass up on a legit talent who can play in the slot if the value is there. 

[Victor1124]

55 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Jeez .. he's a star!  I hope you are right, but he could easily be a buster as well.  He had a pathetic 5 game stretch in the 2nd half of the season where he had 7 receptions for 61 yds. and managed just 21 receptions for 212 yds in the final 8 games combined.

Yea, calling him a star is pretty aggressive. I like MVS a lot and he made some promising plays as shown in his highlights but we still have to wait and see. Not sure if this can be used as a negative since it is anticipated he will continue playing with him and we could say it for most of our wideouts but he is also doing this with Aaron Rodgers throwing him the ball. I like MVS on deeper routes and such but he still has a lot of developing to do in some other aspects. 

[Joe]

45 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Jeez .. he's a star!  I hope you are right, but he could easily be a buster as well.  He had a pathetic 5 game stretch in the 2nd half of the season where he had 7 receptions for 61 yds. and managed just 21 receptions for 212 yds in the final 8 games combined.

Consider the offense and what was happening around him.

 

42 minutes ago, cannondale said:

I'm thinking the 2nd for a safety and the 3rd for a TE might be the sweet spots.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Sternberger will be our pick at 75...

 

7 minutes ago, Victor1124 said:

 

I can agree with this when it comes to an outside receiver. I find it strange when people constantly mock us guys like Metcalf, Harry, Butler, etc. Where I disagree is slot WR. I really think we need a dynamic slot type to hopefully take the offense to another level. With that being said, the only guys I'm really hung up on would be AJ Brown and to a lesser extent, if a guy like Andy Isabella fell to the third. 

I do think MVS can become a solid #2 and ESB can maybe be a solid #3 but that isn't even close to a guarantee. Those two guys could easily be a solid #3 and #4. I like those guys but saying they have shown they have potential to be star wideouts is pretty aggressive, especially with ESB. I also like Allison but he has one year left and is coming off a season ending injury, J'mon Moore hasn't shown much and besides a nice preseason plus some praise from Rodgers, Kumerow hasn't either. 

Look no further than last season when Allison and Cobb went down early and we had to rely on our #4 and #5 wideouts. I would be very happy with Adams, Brown, and MVS being our top 3 wideouts with ESB being a legit #4. 

Not saying he will but let's say the Packers think AJ Brown could have a JuJu Smith-Schuster type impact, do you really not draft a guy like that because of ESB or MVS?  I like your optimism on what we have but I don't think we should pass up on a legit talent who can play in the slot if the value is there. 

Kiper and McShay are mocking receivers to us because they think that's the only way we're going to win games. Aaron's issues with the offense had nothing to do with the players and everything to do with the scheme. Then you're talking about a defense that's trying to recover from 6 years too many of Dom. IIRC both Brown and Isabella have visited. I prefer Isabella, but he's probably not getting past all of those 2nd round picks New England holds, especially now that Hogan has left. 

I agree with you on MVS. He's going to emerge as a WR2 this year unless he hits some sort of slump. Little less confident in ESB, but if he can function out of the slot... Allison is a utility WR as far as I'm concerned; you stick him somewhere and tell him which route to run and he'll find a way to make Aaron throw him the ball.  I wouldn't say Moore had a good preseason at all. 

[MacReady]

Just now, {Family Ghost} said:

Jeez .. he's a star!  I hope you are right, but he could easily be a buster as well.  He had a pathetic 5 game stretch in the 2nd half of the season where he had 7 receptions for 61 yds. and managed just 21 receptions for 212 yds in the final 8 games combined.

You mean that stretch where our offense scored 21.8 points per game, we were 1-4 and our head coach got fired?  That stretch?

[Victor1124]

9 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

I wouldn't say Moore had a good preseason at all. 

I was speaking of Kumerow. 

[{Family Ghost}]

10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

You mean that stretch where our offense scored 21.8 points per game, we were 1-4 and our head coach got fired?  That stretch?

Yeah, what was I thinking .. those games don't count.

[Leader]

@rcon14 - whats your breakdown between Hakeem and EQ?

 

[Victor1124]

7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

You mean that stretch where our offense scored 21.8 points per game, we were 1-4 and our head coach got fired?  That stretch?

Is it possible MVS slumping and Rodgers not having a #2 option outside of Adams to make plays had something to do with the low scoring output? Of course, MVS was a rookie and not saying he won't develop into a consistent #2 option but that would be the argument to take a guy in the draft you think will be a legit and consistent #2 option for this offense.

[Joe]

5 minutes ago, Victor1124 said:

I was speaking of Kumerow. 

My bad.

 

1 minute ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Yeah, what was I thinking .. those games don't count.

Agreed. Pretty hard to even consider evaluating players because you don't know what the next coach will do. Kind of unfair for the players IMO. It's also why we we're in a wait-n-see period with the WR's we currently have.