2019 Draft Discussion

[MacReady]

My official and final list of players I would be okay with at 12th overall (ranked):

1. Nick Bosa
2. Q. Williams
3. Ed Oliver
4. Josh Allen
5. Brian Burns
6. Jonah Williams (age puts him higher than Taylor/Dillard
7. Juwan Taylor
8. Andre Dillard
9. Dexter Lawrence
10. Christian Wilkins (RB, S, DL lower than Lawrence because he'll turn 24 midseason)
11. Rashaan Gary (So much potential, so little trust in his commitment)

[Packerraymond]

I just cannot comprehend how someone could watch Dillard, Taylor and Williams and not have Dillard far and away #1 for the Green Bay Packers.

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

I just cannot comprehend how someone could watch Dillard, Taylor and Williams and not have Dillard far and away #1 for the Green Bay Packers.

Age is my reason.  Dillard will turn 24 this season.  Jonah Williams will turn 22.  That's the difference between a second contract starting at 26/27 years old instead of 28 or 29 years old. 

[fistfullofbeer]

53 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

From Mcginn. If you put any stock into these it makes a guy want Chase at 30.

 

5. BRIAN BURNS, Florida State (6-5, 242, 4.60, 1): Third-year junior from Fort Lauderdale, Fla. “He’s got a basketball body,” said one scout. “Has a legitimate chance to be one of those up-down guys. A rusher on third down and play as an off-the-ball linebacker. He can drop and cover. Ran like a scalded dog.” Played at just 215 pounds in 2015 and in the low 230s last year. Bulked up to 249 for the combine but was down to 242 at pro day not long thereafter. “He’s better coming out as a pass rusher than Leonard Floyd,” said a second scout. “More productive. Got a more natural knack for it. You’re checking the pass-rush box with him. Somebody will probably take a chance. It might be late 1.” Finished with 123 tackles (38 ½) for loss, 23 sacks and seven forced fumbles. Arms were 33 7/8, hands were 10. Resisted some efforts to increase his weight at FSU. “The weight obviously was manufactured for the combine,” said a third scout. “I think he plays in the 235 range. He’s just not that big of a guy. You’re going to get bounced around a lot if he’s 235, 240. He’s very nimble as a pass rusher. He’s got some bend to him. He’s got a nice spin move inside. He can work the edge. He’s a six, seven, eight sack guy.” Wonderlic of 22. “Not very tough or physical,” said a fourth scout. “Weak against the run. He’s got to win with his get-off. After that he doesn’t have moves and isn’t strong. Doesn’t have finish. He’s an athlete, not a football player.”

 

7. JACHAI POLITE, Florida (6-2 ½, 256, 4.85, 2-3): One of the most polarizing players in the draft. “Polite is a better player than Burns but he had a terrible off-season,” said one scout. “Good on tape but ran slow. He’s a problem. Not a great character guy.” Posted 11 of his 15 sacks in 2018, his first season as a starter. Then ran poorly, tested terribly and left a sour impression during interviews with some teams at the combine. “He completely bombed the post-season,” a second scout said. “His test numbers are awful. You’re going to get squat out of Polite his rookie year. He’s going to be overwhelmed with the transition to the NFL. But he can get after the passer. He’s boom or bust.” Stood at a podium at the combine and complained that the Packers were too hard on him during an interview. Hard to coach, influences young players and disturbs the locker room. Wonderlic of 17. “He’s got a lot of issues,” said a third scout. “He’s even a reach to take him in the second round. I see more third round with the whole package. But people overpay for rushers. Got a messed-up family and off-field stuff. There’s a lot of (bleep).” Finished with 78 tackles (28 ½ for loss), eight forced fumbles and 15 sacks before declaring a year early. “He’s just out there,” said a fourth scout. “Doesn’t know how to play. I thought he was slow. Bad against the run. Low motor.” From Daytona Beach, Fla.

9. CHASE WINOVICH, Michigan (6-2 ½, 254, 4.65, 2-3): Prep quarterback from Pittsburgh came to Ann Arbor as an inside linebacker and moved to TE briefly before finding a home at RE opposite Rashan Gary. “He made more plays in one game than Gary did in three games,” said one scout. “What a (bleep) wild horse rider guy he is. He is going to play 10 years in the NFL. I don’t give a (bleep) what anybody says. He must be in the huddle when they call the plays because he gets to the ball. Some 3-4 team might try him as a linebacker but I don’t see that in him. Forget all that height-weight-speed (bleep). Put on the film and see who makes the plays.” Finished with 166 tackles (43 for loss) and 18 ½ sacks. Wacky personality. Dyed his hair, can’t stop talking and constantly asking questions in the football building. “He’s kind of a big-time millennial guy,” said a second scout. “He really started to feel himself in the branding. Some of that stuff bothers me. But then he is a good football player. All the Michigan tape was Chase Winovich making plays.” Ran a swift 40 and posted the best short shuttle (4.11) at the position. “You don’t see any defensive linemen that get under 4.25,” said a third scout. “He plays his butt off. He’s a complete player. He refuses not to be. He’s one of those guys that has the heart of a lion. His intensity is infectious.” Wonderlic of 31. “He’s like a big, dumb puppy,” a fourth scout said. “He wants attention all the time. He could polarize teammates that way. The older guys will roll their eyes at him and the younger guys think he’s the man … he’s not super-gifted but he’s not a stiff, either. At pro day he did outside linebacker drills and looked really good. I think a 3-4 team will pick him higher than a 4-3 team.” Compared by one scout to Rob Ninkovich.
 

I read some of the ratings on McGinn's site (bought subscription today). I know its 1 source only but man, I was not impressed by pretty much any of those guys. Even Bosa. And Polite complained about the Packers interview? That is kind of ridiculous.

I am not a draft expert like a lot of you folks but it just seems like a lot of these Edge guys have attitude problems. Ximines (at 8) or Winovich (at 9) seem to be decent options if they make it to 30 or 44.

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

Age is my reason.  Dillard will turn 24 this season.  Jonah Williams will turn 22.  That's the difference between a second contract starting at 26/27 years old instead of 28 or 29 years old. 

Williams is most likely a guard. Dillard is a true pass pro OT. I don't care about age.

[Arthur Penske]

11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Age is my reason.  Dillard will turn 24 this season.  Jonah Williams will turn 22.  That's the difference between a second contract starting at 26/27 years old instead of 28 or 29 years old. 

Most think Williams will play guard, and you throw out your no guard rule because he's younger? 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, Arthur Penske said:

From Mcginn. If you put any stock into these it makes a guy want Chase at 30.

 

5. BRIAN BURNS, Florida State (6-5, 242, 4.60, 1): Third-year junior from Fort Lauderdale, Fla. “He’s got a basketball body,” said one scout. “Has a legitimate chance to be one of those up-down guys. A rusher on third down and play as an off-the-ball linebacker. He can drop and cover. Ran like a scalded dog.” Played at just 215 pounds in 2015 and in the low 230s last year. Bulked up to 249 for the combine but was down to 242 at pro day not long thereafter. “He’s better coming out as a pass rusher than Leonard Floyd,” said a second scout. “More productive. Got a more natural knack for it. You’re checking the pass-rush box with him. Somebody will probably take a chance. It might be late 1.” Finished with 123 tackles (38 ½) for loss, 23 sacks and seven forced fumbles. Arms were 33 7/8, hands were 10. Resisted some efforts to increase his weight at FSU. “The weight obviously was manufactured for the combine,” said a third scout. “I think he plays in the 235 range. He’s just not that big of a guy. You’re going to get bounced around a lot if he’s 235, 240. He’s very nimble as a pass rusher. He’s got some bend to him. He’s got a nice spin move inside. He can work the edge. He’s a six, seven, eight sack guy.” Wonderlic of 22. “Not very tough or physical,” said a fourth scout. “Weak against the run. He’s got to win with his get-off. After that he doesn’t have moves and isn’t strong. Doesn’t have finish. He’s an athlete, not a football player.”

 

7. JACHAI POLITE, Florida (6-2 ½, 256, 4.85, 2-3): One of the most polarizing players in the draft. “Polite is a better player than Burns but he had a terrible off-season,” said one scout. “Good on tape but ran slow. He’s a problem. Not a great character guy.” Posted 11 of his 15 sacks in 2018, his first season as a starter. Then ran poorly, tested terribly and left a sour impression during interviews with some teams at the combine. “He completely bombed the post-season,” a second scout said. “His test numbers are awful. You’re going to get squat out of Polite his rookie year. He’s going to be overwhelmed with the transition to the NFL. But he can get after the passer. He’s boom or bust.” Stood at a podium at the combine and complained that the Packers were too hard on him during an interview. Hard to coach, influences young players and disturbs the locker room. Wonderlic of 17. “He’s got a lot of issues,” said a third scout. “He’s even a reach to take him in the second round. I see more third round with the whole package. But people overpay for rushers. Got a messed-up family and off-field stuff. There’s a lot of (bleep).” Finished with 78 tackles (28 ½ for loss), eight forced fumbles and 15 sacks before declaring a year early. “He’s just out there,” said a fourth scout. “Doesn’t know how to play. I thought he was slow. Bad against the run. Low motor.” From Daytona Beach, Fla.

9. CHASE WINOVICH, Michigan (6-2 ½, 254, 4.65, 2-3): Prep quarterback from Pittsburgh came to Ann Arbor as an inside linebacker and moved to TE briefly before finding a home at RE opposite Rashan Gary. “He made more plays in one game than Gary did in three games,” said one scout. “What a (bleep) wild horse rider guy he is. He is going to play 10 years in the NFL. I don’t give a (bleep) what anybody says. He must be in the huddle when they call the plays because he gets to the ball. Some 3-4 team might try him as a linebacker but I don’t see that in him. Forget all that height-weight-speed (bleep). Put on the film and see who makes the plays.” Finished with 166 tackles (43 for loss) and 18 ½ sacks. Wacky personality. Dyed his hair, can’t stop talking and constantly asking questions in the football building. “He’s kind of a big-time millennial guy,” said a second scout. “He really started to feel himself in the branding. Some of that stuff bothers me. But then he is a good football player. All the Michigan tape was Chase Winovich making plays.” Ran a swift 40 and posted the best short shuttle (4.11) at the position. “You don’t see any defensive linemen that get under 4.25,” said a third scout. “He plays his butt off. He’s a complete player. He refuses not to be. He’s one of those guys that has the heart of a lion. His intensity is infectious.” Wonderlic of 31. “He’s like a big, dumb puppy,” a fourth scout said. “He wants attention all the time. He could polarize teammates that way. The older guys will roll their eyes at him and the younger guys think he’s the man … he’s not super-gifted but he’s not a stiff, either. At pro day he did outside linebacker drills and looked really good. I think a 3-4 team will pick him higher than a 4-3 team.” Compared by one scout to Rob Ninkovich.
 

Not sure if racist or scout speak?

[rcon14]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not sure if racist or scout speak?

That venn diagram is largely just one circle

[Arthur Penske]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not sure if racist or scout speak?

[MacReady]

Just now, Arthur Penske said:

Most think Williams will play guard, and you throw out your no guard rule because he's younger? 

No.  I've already answered your question.  What is wrong with you?  You always try to do these "gotcha" BS bullcrap **** with me every got damn chance you get even though I frickin respond and then a week later you do the same effing thing. 

I HAVE ALREADY RESPONDED TO THIS QUESTION OF YOURS.

REMEMBER IT THIS TIME.

Read the following sentence like I am pretending to speak to a slightly deaf person who needs both the annunciation, volume and proper lip movement to be understood:

I do not believe Jonah Williams is the guard everybody thinks he is.  I believe he has tremendous value being able to play both guard and tackle, particularly guard in his rookie year with the expectation that he plays right tackle in the future once Bulaga leaves. 

This is at least the second time I have directly quoted you in response to this stupid petty BS from you. 

Do I have to at you for you to get it?  Did you completely miss the last time I answered this exactly the same as I'm answering it now?

@Arthur Penske,

I do not believe Jonah Williams is the guard everybody thinks he is.  I believe he has tremendous value being able to play both guard and tackle, particularly guard in his rookie year with the expectation that he plays right tackle in the future once Bulaga leaves. 

[incognito_man]

43 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I just cannot comprehend how someone could watch Dillard, Taylor and Williams and not have Dillard far and away #1 for the Green Bay Packers.

Wish I had Taylor's agility numbers. If he bombed those, Dillard would be easily #1. If he did well, Taylor would likely still be #1.

[MacReady]

I used to want us to draft Chase Winovich until I found out he's already 24 years old. 

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I used to want us to draft Chase Winovich until I found out he's already 24 years old. 

And had 5 sacks as an SR5?

[PossibleCabbage]

6 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Wish I had Taylor's agility numbers. If he bombed those, Dillard would be easily #1. If he did well, Taylor would likely still be #1.

I mean, the Packers were extensively linked to Jawaan at the very stat of the offseason, then the buzz sort of died down as he was presumed to be out of their range.  So they probably are content with his agility from tape.

[MacReady]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

And had 5 sacks as an SR5?

I don't really care about college production honestly.  I mean I care, but I don't think it's that big of a factor.  Clay Matthews had 4.5 sacks in a similar situation. 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/sacks-player-career.html

I don't really think production in college is a good measurement tool for NFL projection.