GDT Week 3: DEN @ BAL

[AnAngryAmerican]

I hate when we play in the morning because by the time I get home and get some time to post about the game, it feels like it was two weeks ago. 

Anyway, I said it when he was signed, I said it during camp, the preseason, the last two games, Case is just a guy. He's not a starting QB. I don't even know if, from an on-the-field perspective, he's better than what we had last year. Elway had to do something to throw a bone to the vets, the guys with rings, to get them to buy-in for this year. I guess Case was the best option. I loved and still love getting Chubb when he was there - and I think he has a long, successful, productive career in this league and may even retire as an all-time great Bronco - but we passed on Josh Rosen and Josh Allen (holy crap, did you see him today!?!?!?!?!?) for Chubb because we had Case and Elway didn't want to deal with another PR QB controversy. Well, we're going to have one now because everyone is already calling for Chad and we haven't even played a playoff team yet. 

This is why I can't fault Elway too much for the Lynch pick - even though everyone wants to put that swing and miss at the top of his GM resume - he took at a shot at a high-upside player at the most important position. But that didn't work out and we went with a journeyman game-manager who is looking more and more like the one-hit-wonder a lot of us thought and said he was.  I'll take a GM who takes a shot - just like I'll take the coach who goes for the TD rather than punts and tries to play the field position game - 10 times out of 10, even if it blows up in their face. I'd rather have a chance to win it all than spend the next five or six years as a fringe Wild Card team. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

What else did we learn today?

• Vance still can't coach. I know the team's media mouthpieces and sycophants think Vance is a changed man but he's still out of his depth; his in-game management is atrocious and his team's preparedness and focus is worse than his in-game adjustments. 
• The Meathead at LT is still a meathead. If only there had been some clue. 
• The secondary is a joke. Of course when you get rid of a HOF DC and your best CB and replace the former with a Vance yes-man and the other with ... something ... I don't see how anyone could expect a drop off. 
• Phillip Lindsay continues to make CU proud, in every CU way possible.

[Broncofan]

14 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

What else did we learn today?

• Vance still can't coach. I know the team's media mouthpieces and sycophants think Vance is a changed man but he's still out of his depth; his in-game management is atrocious and his team's preparedness and focus is worse than his in-game adjustments. 
• The Meathead at LT is still a meathead. If only there had been some clue. 
• The secondary is a joke. Of course when you get rid of a HOF DC and your best CB and replace the former with a Vance yes-man and the other with ... something ... I don't see how anyone could expect a drop off. 
• Phillip Lindsay continues to make CU proud, in every CU way possible.

I agree with the other points on VJ & the secondary, and that Bolles was outmanned in a huge way (also at some point the coaching staff should be sending help his way).   

Lindsay’s ejection was weak sauce.  Veldheer recovered a fumble and the whistle blew.   Pretty late hit.   Lindsay defended his teammate by getting in there.   He can’t do that but it was a move that we all get.  And the call that he was throwing punches - please.  SMH refs on that one.   He’ll learn from it.   But it’s not in the same class of issues as the rest (with or without him we were getting rolled).   

I can get behind slamming the coaches, the pass protection, Keenum and our pass D today.   Ugly all the way around.  Lindsay’s ejection doesn’t belong in that group.  

[AnAngryAmerican]

11 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I agree with the other points on VJ & the secondary, and that Bolles was outmanned in a huge way (also at some point the coaching staff should be sending help his way).   

Lindsay’s ejection was weak sauce.  Veldheer recovered a fumble and the whistle blew.   Pretty late hit.   Lindsay defended his teammate by getting in there.   He can’t do that but it was a move that we all get.  And the call that he was throwing punches - please.  SMH refs on that one.   He’ll learn from it.   But it’s not in the same class of issues as the rest (with or without him we were getting rolled).   

I can get behind slamming the coaches, the pass protection, Keenum and our pass D.    Lindsay’s ejection doesn’t belong in that group.  

Much as I love to throw shade CU's way, I do think the Lindsay ejection was BS. That being said, if a face of the league type player in Clay Matthews can get BS flagged the way he has the last three weeks, an un-drafted rookie needs to learn to his place. If the league is going to go all pink panties on us (and then ask why ratings, attendance and merchandise sales are plummeting) the players need to learn to live within the rules. It's crap, but the NFL needs to decide if wants to be a football league or a flag football league because between this and everything else, I'm about done with the NFL. 

[BroncoBruin]

It goes to show you can't cheap out on QBs. You just can't cheat the game. The best you can hope for is to get lucky in some way (Brady, Russell Wilson). 

[jolly red giant]

3 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

What else did we learn today?

• Vance still can't coach. I know the team's media mouthpieces and sycophants think Vance is a changed man but he's still out of his depth; his in-game management is atrocious and his team's preparedness and focus is worse than his in-game adjustments. 
• The Meathead at LT is still a meathead. If only there had been some clue. 
• The secondary is a joke. Of course when you get rid of a HOF DC and your best CB and replace the former with a Vance yes-man and the other with ... something ... I don't see how anyone could expect a drop off. 
• Phillip Lindsay continues to make CU proud, in every CU way possible.

I am going to take issue with a couple of things

1. I agree - Joseph is done - after doing reasonably well in the first week - the past two weeks have shown that he hasn't learned anything.

2. The Meathead had two penalties for offensive holding - both because Keenum held the ball for far too long. The Meathead had the same number of penalties as Von Miller and Conor McGovern (again these two were because Keenum held the ball too long). Plus there were three unnecessary roughness penalties - which shouldn't happen. Bolles was up against Suggs and should have had help.

3. This secondary has good players - We have a lock-down CB and another who would be a starter for most teams in the NFL - and two decent safeties. When Brock went out Yiadom was targeted four times for four completions for 62 yds. I think the problem with the secondary (which does lack depth) is not the personnel but the coaching.

4. Lindsey has been the one bright spark all season - he shouldn't have done what he did but it was a bullsh*t call because he was going after the ball, not swinging at a player.

[jolly red giant]

3 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I hate when we play in the morning because by the time I get home and get some time to post about the game, it feels like it was two weeks ago. 

Anyway, I said it when he was signed, I said it during camp, the preseason, the last two games, Case is just a guy. He's not a starting QB. I don't even know if, from an on-the-field perspective, he's better than what we had last year. Elway had to do something to throw a bone to the vets, the guys with rings, to get them to buy-in for this year. I guess Case was the best option. I loved and still love getting Chubb when he was there - and I think he has a long, successful, productive career in this league and may even retire as an all-time great Bronco - but we passed on Josh Rosen and Josh Allen (holy crap, did you see him today!?!?!?!?!?) for Chubb because we had Case and Elway didn't want to deal with another PR QB controversy. Well, we're going to have one now because everyone is already calling for Chad and we haven't even played a playoff team yet. 

This is why I can't fault Elway too much for the Lynch pick - even though everyone wants to put that swing and miss at the top of his GM resume - he took at a shot at a high-upside player at the most important position. But that didn't work out and we went with a journeyman game-manager who is looking more and more like the one-hit-wonder a lot of us thought and said he was.  I'll take a GM who takes a shot - just like I'll take the coach who goes for the TD rather than punts and tries to play the field position game - 10 times out of 10, even if it blows up in their face. I'd rather have a chance to win it all than spend the next five or six years as a fringe Wild Card team. 

Allen has played one game - like Mayfield. Give the DCs time to get some tape and we will see what they can do. Both could be very good - but could still just as easily end up busts.

I also disagree with taking Rosen at 1.5 - Chubb was hands down the BPA at the pick and how often have we said that Elway needs to go BPA. What I would have liked to have seen was Elway trading back into the first round to try and get Rosen when he dropped out of the top ten. And again - there is no guarantee that Rosen or any of the four QBs taken will be the QOTF - all four could - but could just as easily be busts.

[jolly red giant]

10 hours ago, germ-x said:

Then you have a team like the Chiefs, who have arguably the 2nd best coach in the league and spent the assets to get Mahomes, who looks eerily similar to Aaron Rodgers.  Mahomes will have ups and downs, but make no mistake he’s a franchise QB who Denver will have to deal with for a decade.

QBs....gotta have one.

Looks like the 49ers have just lost their franchise QB

[lomaxgrUK]

I will go back and watch the all 22 this week, but the things that jumped out to me are that we are still struggling to throw the ball and stop the pass; the NFL is a passing league, guys.

Our CBs are, at very best, below average when we're fully healthy. Having two CBs injured is an absolute killer for this team. I liked the way Yiadom competed when he came in and he had decent coverage on most throws that went his way. The problem is that like most young CBs, he can't find the football and he doesn't understand NFL route concepts. 

On the face of it, our passing attack was poor in all facets. Case delivering the ball on time within the context of the scheme, pass protection, more drops, play calling - the lot. These days, the pass sets up the run as much (if not more) than the run setting up the pass. You have, have, have to be able to threaten a Defense through the air on early downs. Defenses are too athletic to just pound the ball on 1st and 2nd down to create 3rd and 1-2. We just seem to find ourselves in 2nd and 10 consistently due to tipped balls, poor throws or drops. We all knew Case Keenum isn't good enough to move the chains consistently on 3rd and 10, so this shouldn't surprise anyone. However, we need to start tidying up our execution on 1st and 2nd down to at least give us a chance.

Some other things:

* Derek Wolfe might be the most overpaid player on this team with his play so far this year. With his injury record, if his play doesn't pickup then I expect to hear rumours of him being cut next year.

* I know we're a base Cover-1 team. It's a staple of our team, I get it. But we were so predictable against Oakland and we were again today. We aren't good enough to just go out and play on Defense. We have to start throwing some kinks in, and not just on 3rd and long either.

* I loved our 2 TE looks against the Seahawks, but the lack of production from both Butt and Heuerman is beginning to frustrate me, given how much they are on the field. I need to look at the tape to see who is at fault for this.

* Compared to most I am a fan, but Bradley Roby has to start making some plays for this team. He's getting enough chances because nobody is scared of throwing at him. It's one thing to get beat through the air due to being aggressive and trying to make plays, but we are just getting methodically marched down the field by 8-12 yard passes. Roby has all the attributes to play press-man coverage; get up there and do it.

I will report back later in the week. Until then, can you religious folk please get praying for us making it out of next Monday with an ounce of dignity ...

[thebestever6]

That block in the back call on peko was probably the worst call I ever saw. Troy renck posted it on Twitter.  He touched him with two fingers and the guy flopped. 

I'm with AAA the Nfl is ruining the product so much. If this continues I don't see this die hard fan being a fan of the Nfl in 5 years.

The NFL also expects a guy going full speed to sack the qb to roll in mid air so he doesn't land on the qb like it's getting bad.

[jolly red giant]

1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said:

* Derek Wolfe might be the most overpaid player on this team with his play so far this year. With his injury record, if his play doesn't pickup then I expect to hear rumours of him being cut next year.

* I know we're a base Cover-1 team. It's a staple of our team, I get it. But we were so predictable against Oakland and we were again today. We aren't good enough to just go out and play on Defense. We have to start throwing some kinks in, and not just on 3rd and long either.

* I loved our 2 TE looks against the Seahawks, but the lack of production from both Butt and Heuerman is beginning to frustrate me, given how much they are on the field. I need to look at the tape to see who is at fault for this.

* Compared to most I am a fan, but Bradley Roby has to start making some plays for this team. He's getting enough chances because nobody is scared of throwing at him. It's one thing to get beat through the air due to being aggressive and trying to make plays, but we are just getting methodically marched down the field by 8-12 yard passes. Roby has all the attributes to play press-man coverage; get up there and do it.

Wolfe was in on five tackles in the run game that went for a total of 1 yard - and he batted down a pass - in comparison to Wolfe, Von Miller did nothing and didn't look like doing anything.

I agree about the secondary - Talib was a difference maker here and without him you cannot expect to do the same and should not think its business as usual - that is on Woods (and Joseph)

From what I could see the TEs didn't appear to know what they were doing - for too much of the game they seemed to do nothing, not pass pro, not blocking and not running routes.

I think you are being a bit hard on Roby - he was targeted twice for two completions for 28 yards, one a 19 yd pass where Flacco had all day to throw and and did a good job with the pass. Chris Harris was targeted 4 times, 3 completions for 29 yards - and another completion that was brought back for a penalty against Denver. I think the problem with the secondary is Woods because the players we have are good enough to get the job done. A bit issue yesterday was that we could stop the run but there was little pressure on Flacco all day.

[jolly red giant]

One thing that does worry me was the body language and demeanour of Von Miller in the post-game presser - he looked like a player who was utterly disillusioned by what was going on around him.

[lomaxgrUK]

8 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

Wolfe was in on five tackles in the run game that went for a total of 1 yard - and he batted down a pass - in comparison to Wolfe, Von Miller did nothing and didn't look like doing anything.

I agree about the secondary - Talib was a difference maker here and without him you cannot expect to do the same and should not think its business as usual - that is on Woods (and Joseph)

From what I could see the TEs didn't appear to know what they were doing - for too much of the game they seemed to do nothing, not pass pro, not blocking and not running routes.

I think you are being a bit hard on Roby - he was targeted twice for two completions for 28 yards, one a 19 yd pass where Flacco had all day to throw and and did a good job with the pass. Chris Harris was targeted 4 times, 3 completions for 29 yards - and another completion that was brought back for a penalty against Denver. I think the problem with the secondary is Woods because the players we have are good enough to get the job done. A bit issue yesterday was that we could stop the run but there was little pressure on Flacco all day.

You don't pay a DE, and someone who becomes a DT on 3rd down in Nickel/Dime, $11 million a year in cap hit to stuff the run 5 times in a game where the opposition Offense has 70 snaps. Von Miller has been excellent this year; what is the point in that comparison? My comment was with regards to Wolfe's play for all 3 games this year, not just yesterday. Zach Kerr and Shelby Harris can have the same impact as Wolfe for a fraction of the cost. 

In the all 22 footage I've seen, I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe the TE's don't know what they are doing. It just doesn't seem as though any of our plays outside of the RZ are designed to get them the ball. 

I will have to re-watch the game, but if only 3 balls were completed on Harris and only 2 on Roby, where were the other 20 completions accredited to?

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

Wolfe was in on five tackles in the run game that went for a total of 1 yard - and he batted down a pass - in comparison to Wolfe, Von Miller did nothing and didn't look like doing anything.

I agree about the secondary - Talib was a difference maker here and without him you cannot expect to do the same and should not think its business as usual - that is on Woods (and Joseph)

From what I could see the TEs didn't appear to know what they were doing - for too much of the game they seemed to do nothing, not pass pro, not blocking and not running routes.

I think you are being a bit hard on Roby - he was targeted twice for two completions for 28 yards, one a 19 yd pass where Flacco had all day to throw and and did a good job with the pass. Chris Harris was targeted 4 times, 3 completions for 29 yards - and another completion that was brought back for a penalty against Denver. I think the problem with the secondary is Woods because the players we have are good enough to get the job done. A bit issue yesterday was that we could stop the run but there was little pressure on Flacco all day.

I love Wolfe's heart, and what he did for us in 2014-2016.  It's just that if he's mostly a run stuffer, that's not good enough return on our investment.  Now, to be fair, Marshall deserves the same criticism at ILB, and DT now as a possession-only guy at WR.     But the big reason to our problems at present is our 2nd contract guys are just bad values.  It's absolutely nothing against them personally, I'll always remember all 3 fondly when they are gone.    But it's absolutely fair to point to the 10.7+ M for Wolfe, 11M for DT, and 7M for Marshall (and yes, 15M this year for Keenum), and cringe, for what they are now.

As for Von, his production isn't measured by sacks/tackles alone - teams are often doubling/tripling him, which allows the rest of the D to win 1-on-1, or sometimes uncovered.  I won't get on Von for 1 game where he's not filling the stat sheet.    

Re: secondary, yes, the coaching isn't great at all - and it should be.  But Yiadom/Brock aren't that good right now.  In Brock's case, the injuries have clearly robbed him of his peak ability.  In Yiadom's case, he's too raw, he has no business dressing, but necessity forced him onto the field.   Re: Roby, I think the issue isn't just yesterday (which admittedly he wasn't a recipient of volume, because frankly BAL could pick elsewhere) - but overall, from week 1-3.   

[BroncosFan2010]

Nothing about this game suprised me. The 2-0 start is what suprised me. This offseason telegraphed exactly what our issues were in this game, and its a few things I was saying all along.

1) Case Keenum isnt a starting talent. He is a backup who had a fluke year. As a starter, he is one of the 5 worst QB in the league.

2) Vance Joseph isnt a competent HC. He is one of the 5 worst HC in the league (And that may be generous).

3) Trading Talib for a R5 pick (Then subsequently using the money saved to sign the above mentioned backup QB to 22M) was a horrendous move that will deeply cost this team in 2018.

4) While one game doesnt define his improvements, I still prefer Bolles as a RT moving forward. Look, I understand he was going against a HOF pass rusher, but as a R1 pick you should come out slightly negative in that situation not look like a turnstile.

5) I have not been that harsh on Woods, but he looks to be incompetent too. IDK if Vance is influencing the schemes but for a guy that was supossedly Phillips understudy, he sure doesnt call a game like Wade.

Overall, despite the 2-0 start, its going to be a 'nothing to see here' type season. We are a middling team who will end up 6-10 to 8-8. A treadmill team without a competent HC and stuck paying a bad QB a ton of money in a desperate attempt to get booted in the Wildcard.

On the plus side, the 2017 draft class looks tremendous. It just wont matter until we have a QB and HC.