Fire Mike Smith Now

[ravishingone]

good luck dirk you re going to need it

[bucsfan333]

PREACH!!!!!!!

[ravishingone]

2 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said:

PREACH!!!!!!!

Parts of this article I agree with.  The zone scheme absolutely.  I don't agree with they haven't drafted athletes.  Evans, Whitehead, and VHIII tested very well athletically.  Kwon and David are not lumbering.  I don't know what Vea is considering he missed all training camp and played in one game.  

[REDandPEWTER]

21 minutes ago, ravishingone said:

Parts of this article I agree with.  The zone scheme absolutely.  I don't agree with they haven't drafted athletes.  Evans, Whitehead, and VHIII tested very well athletically.  Kwon and David are not lumbering.  I don't know what Vea is considering he missed all training camp and played in one game.  

Athletes vs football players. Much different conversation here. 

I feel like we drafted athletes with low football iqs. 

[bucsfan333]

1 hour ago, ravishingone said:

Parts of this article I agree with.  The zone scheme absolutely.  I don't agree with they haven't drafted athletes.  Evans, Whitehead, and VHIII tested very well athletically.  Kwon and David are not lumbering.  I don't know what Vea is considering he missed all training camp and played in one game.  

It's the philosophy of stopping the run first and playing ****ty zone behind it. It's the idea of building the middle of the line and working out. It's the idea of drafting Vea over a Derwin James or Minkah Fitzpatrick, after already revamping the dline with nose tackles.

Like the article says, those are ideas that would've worked 10+ years ago. But they don't work in today's NFL.

It is Lovie 2.0, as you said the other day.

[BucsDraftGeek47]

4 hours ago, Lil' Shorty said:

Koetter is such a stupid muel. Well hopefully a good young coach can come in here and actually get something out of all this talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball. I bet a new coach would give Jameis 1 year and then depending on how that goes would determine his future with the team.

Im so jealous of Sean McVay. Perfect example (granted their defense is wayyyy better talent wise than ours) but young offensive mind that comes in and adapts to today’s NFL then gets a strong vet defensive coach who actually plays to his players strengths. One can hope. What a depressing season....again.

its ridiculous that Dirk wants to keep making excuses for Smith, i just , i cant understand

and honestly , this may be a little early calling it here ,but i think Winston is done too

Fitzpatrick made our offense look better than Winston has EVER made it look (when he had time) and it wasnt a matter of Monken calling the right plays and becoming an up and coming coordinator, it was a high IQ guy calling the shots and throwing darts out there

and now we will revert to Hump screens and blindly hoping that Mike evans (a top 5 WR in this league) can single handedly carry our offense

meanwhile every team we play has the potential to put up 50 points

[bucsfan333]

51 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

its ridiculous that Dirk wants to keep making excuses for Smith, i just , i cant understand

I get it in the sense that we can't just start from scratch in the middle of the season. Putting in a new defense takes an entire offseason, followed by game reps in preseason and joint practices.

And it's not like quality DCs are just sitting around, waiting for a phone call week five.

[REDandPEWTER]

1 hour ago, bucsfan333 said:

I get it in the sense that we can't just start from scratch in the middle of the season. Putting in a new defense takes an entire offseason, followed by game reps in preseason and joint practices.

And it's not like quality DCs are just sitting around, waiting for a phone call week five.

A lot of guys can’t understand the defense now. It would be worse to change it up now. 

Duffner I can see being the logical guy because our LBs are the better unit of the defense but asking a positions coach to do double duty right now makes no sense especially since we’re still 2-2 thanks to fitz. 

[Calibucsfan]

Dirk's "what are we going to do if we fire Mike Smith?" comment ticked me off

 

its no secret that half our defense at times has no clue what's going on, Bears shredded us just by running trips formation. the same exact trips because our guys couldn't figure out who to cover. I remember reading in 2016 on how the mike smith defense was "too complicated" for the players, so he gutted the playbook and simplified it in 2017.......at least that was the mini camp article of 2017 I read. well now in present day our players are having the same problem where they seem to not know the playbook that well and not fully understand their assignments.

Firing Mike Smith and promoting within and simplifying the playbook might salvage this defense

[REDandPEWTER]

To be honest Cali , if he’s gutted it once and simplified it, what’s that say about the players? 

I mean I can’t go into my job every day and ask my boss to “simplify” things that are too difficult. 

Cant baby the players either. It means we have some guys who are talented yet stupid. 

What does fall on the coaches is when they let Kwon call the defense over David. David making the calls the defense was above average to good and that includes the schianos and lovie years. 

Kwon is overrated. I hold coaching responsible to that but continuing to “dumb down” the play book, is not the answer Bc then we become too vanilla. You want to confuse defenses. 

Vic Vangio runs a complicated scheme in Chicago that has multiple looks and coverages to confuse qbs.  Do you see them complaining? 

[sryan66611]

42 minutes ago, REDandPEWTER said:

To be honest Cali , if he’s gutted it once and simplified it, what’s that say about the players? 

I mean I can’t go into my job every day and ask my boss to “simplify” things that are too difficult. 

Cant baby the players either. It means we have some guys who are talented yet stupid. 

What does fall on the coaches is when they let Kwon call the defense over David. David making the calls the defense was above average to good and that includes the schianos and lovie years. 

Kwon is overrated. I hold coaching responsible to that but continuing to “dumb down” the play book, is not the answer Bc then we become too vanilla. You want to confuse defenses. 

Vic Vangio runs a complicated scheme in Chicago that has multiple looks and coverages to confuse qbs.  Do you see them complaining? 

Its a whole different group of players playing in the secondary for the most part so it doesn't tell you much about the players.  Also, Mike Smith has been installing this defense for these guys since training camp if he saw that they didn't "get it" or were too "stupid"  he should have changed something or actually "coached" the players up to fix those mistakes.  I don't believe that all the players we have drafted are just stupid they have been playing football for most of their adult lives and if they were not football smart I doubt they would get this far.  Athleticism will only take you so far in football and tbh we don't have any guys on defense that just get by on their athleticism.  The guys are thinking too much and it's making them slow.

From what I saw from what I rewatched is for one MJ Stewart can't play in the slot he is not ready.  I think its more his athleticism than anything and he doesn't at this time have the savvy techniques to bail his athleticism out.  Every time he was manned up on someone in coverage he got burnt.  They may have recognized this from the Steelers game as I believe he got beat a decent amount of times then as well.  Switzer got a TD on him and JuJu did too I believe.   In Chicago, he got beat multiple times by Allen Robinson and Taylor Gabriel.    The Allen Robinson TD he was in great coverage but it was just a great throw by Trubisky.  The others times though he just got beat.

As for Kwon I agree he is overrated by the Bucs fans...  In this game Kwon was undisciplined and overran a decent amount of plays which he is known for.  In coverage he wasn't really passing his guys off in zone which caused him to be out of position and guys to sit down in the area he fled from.  It seemed he and Lavonte were not on the same page.  This also could be that he was trying to play hero ball and make a play that wasn't there.

This all IMO is coaching...   If players don't believe what they are being coached they are going to veer off and do their own thing thinking they know better than what the coach is teaching them.  It seemed as if the defense was not even ready for some of the things that the Bears did and it wasn't like it was some new incorporated stuff.  With bunch formations and wheel routes was a huge problem for the Bucs.. The players were confused as one was switching to man and the other was passing his man off in zone creating wide open players.   The coach should Identify this IMO and adjust his scheme during the game to fix this.  They didn't fix it because I think I saw this happen at least three times in the game and players were wide open.

Vic Fangio does run a complicated system but he is a good coach and knows how to put his players in positions to succeed in the role they are used for in that defense.  He has a plan and knows how to adapt his defense and mold the players for his system.

[REDandPEWTER]

4 hours ago, sryan66611 said:

Its a whole different group of players playing in the secondary for the most part so it doesn't tell you much about the players.  Also, Mike Smith has been installing this defense for these guys since training camp if he saw that they didn't "get it" or were too "stupid"  he should have changed something or actually "coached" the players up to fix those mistakes.  I don't believe that all the players we have drafted are just stupid they have been playing football for most of their adult lives and if they were not football smart I doubt they would get this far.  Athleticism will only take you so far in football and tbh we don't have any guys on defense that just get by on their athleticism.  The guys are thinking too much and it's making them slow.

From what I saw from what I rewatched is for one MJ Stewart can't play in the slot he is not ready.  I think its more his athleticism than anything and he doesn't at this time have the savvy techniques to bail his athleticism out.  Every time he was manned up on someone in coverage he got burnt.  They may have recognized this from the Steelers game as I believe he got beat a decent amount of times then as well.  Switzer got a TD on him and JuJu did too I believe.   In Chicago, he got beat multiple times by Allen Robinson and Taylor Gabriel.    The Allen Robinson TD he was in great coverage but it was just a great throw by Trubisky.  The others times though he just got beat.

As for Kwon I agree he is overrated by the Bucs fans...  In this game Kwon was undisciplined and overran a decent amount of plays which he is known for.  In coverage he wasn't really passing his guys off in zone which caused him to be out of position and guys to sit down in the area he fled from.  It seemed he and Lavonte were not on the same page.  This also could be that he was trying to play hero ball and make a play that wasn't there.

This all IMO is coaching...   If players don't believe what they are being coached they are going to veer off and do their own thing thinking they know better than what the coach is teaching them.  It seemed as if the defense was not even ready for some of the things that the Bears did and it wasn't like it was some new incorporated stuff.  With bunch formations and wheel routes was a huge problem for the Bucs.. The players were confused as one was switching to man and the other was passing his man off in zone creating wide open players.   The coach should Identify this IMO and adjust his scheme during the game to fix this.  They didn't fix it because I think I saw this happen at least three times in the game and players were wide open.

Vic Fangio does run a complicated system but he is a good coach and knows how to put his players in positions to succeed in the role they are used for in that defense.  He has a plan and knows how to adapt his defense and mold the players for his system.

Some points I can’t argue. Smith needs to make adjustments. 

But to say he’s a bad coach or that he didn’t do anything to coach guys up in camp is ridiculous. 

There are 8 qbs on pace for 5,000 yards this year. The nfl is changing. Does that excuse our atrocious defense? No but we’re trotting our two second round rookies and an UDfa safety last week with no pass rush. 

Have to try something different but it’s not all on coaching. 

[ravishingone]

I guess the Buffalo debacle wasn't fixed yet

[bucsfan333]

 

[sryan66611]

8 hours ago, REDandPEWTER said:

Some points I can’t argue. Smith needs to make adjustments. 

But to say he’s a bad coach or that he didn’t do anything to coach guys up in camp is ridiculous. 

There are 8 qbs on pace for 5,000 yards this year. The nfl is changing. Does that excuse our atrocious defense? No but we’re trotting our two second round rookies and an UDfa safety last week with no pass rush. 

Have to try something different but it’s not all on coaching. 

I was going to post in the other post about the pass rush but felt it was already too long to reply....  Anyways the pass rush was definitely there..  But what was happening is they were keeping 6 and 7 guys to block and running 3 man routes and **** like that.  So from what I saw the pass rush was there maybe not pressure every snap but it was there.  I even saw Gholston with some nice pressures.  The problem was before anything could even happen there was a wide open receiver for him to throw it to.

 

I don't think Mike Smith didn't do anything to coach guys up but I think he just didn't recognize the inefficiencies of his players and that's a huge problem.   Also a problem the team didn't look this bad in training camp/ preseason so what changed?  I don't know anything about the preparedness and stuff that he does but it just seems its lacking IMO.

 

I definitely agree no matter what he does there will be breakdowns because there are essentially three secondary players and a rookie Vea as well out there and they probably have not even seen most of the things that are being done in the NFL these days.  What I believe should be happening is players getting better or seeing less of these breakdowns but it seems to be the opposite.