Jordan Howard trade rumors are back

[SLCbear]

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Gordon, Elliott, Bell, Hunt, Fournette, Gurley, Johnson, Kamara, Freeman, McCaffrey, Freeman and Mixon are all better and that’s off of the top of my head.

By the end of the year, maybe R.Freeman or Lindsay would be above Howard. When Cook is healthy, he’s a superior runner. Conner’s looking really good. Saquon clearly is more talented.

I’m not sure why “shifty” and “alusive” come to your mind when you think of Howard, but maybe see your local eye doctor.

Preseason? Against third stringers and unemployed guys? GTFOH.

Gurley yes, Zeke yes, LeVeon ya probably .. McCaffery and Saquon are certainly on the rise but not ahead of Howard, yet  .. the rest of your list really shows your bias/disrespect for Howard. You must be a stats guy cause you're clearly not watching Bears games .. go check Howard's stats since entering the league, they don't lie ! 

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, SLCbear said:

Gurley yes, Zeke yes, LeVeon ya probably .. McCaffery and Saquon are certainly on the rise but not ahead of Howard, yet  .. the rest of your list really shows your bias/disrespect for Howard. You must be a stats guy cause you're clearly not watching Bears games .. go check Howard's stats since entering the league, they don't lie ! 

32 GM's would take Gordon, McCaffrey, Barkley, Hunt, Fournette, Johnson, Freeman, Kamara and Mixon over Howard. Sorry, boss.

[G08]

18 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

32 GM's would take Gordon, McCaffrey, Barkley, Hunt, Fournette, Johnson, Freeman, Kamara and Mixon over Howard. Sorry, boss.

You're basing this on what?

Did you conduct a poll?

Is there a poll of 32 GMs where they ranked these players?

 

Or are you just saying this because it's what you think? I'm curious.

[abstract_thought]

The issue with trading Howard is that his skillset is no longer highly valued by NFL teams. Part of this is due to the increased use of backs in the passing game and part is due to the prevalence of players with similar athletic profiles who can do the same things Howard does.

Fans may overvalue backs like this because 5-10 years ago you could build teams around them. That's not the case anymore. Philadelphia just lost Ajayi for the year and they have another similar guy in Clement waiting to step into that role. The Patriots' backfield has centered around James White and a bunch of unknown short yardage backs.

As long as he's not a distraction, it makes little sense to trade Howard now. His value to the Bears this season likely exceeds the future value Pace could get for him. I think next offseason is a more sensible time to address his situation with the Bears and potentially look at younger, more dynamic options.

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

You're basing this on what?

Did you conduct a poll?

Is there a poll of 32 GMs where they ranked these players?

 

Or are you just saying this because it's what you think? I'm curious.

Don’t be a smart***. You know I didn’t poll those guys. Let’s put it this way: if you were a GM, would you truly rather have Howard over any of those guys? The only ones I think you can make an argument for would be Freeman (injury past), Fournette (injury past) and Mixon.

[G08]

22 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Don’t be a smart***. You know I didn’t poll those guys. Let’s put it this way: if you were a GM, would you truly rather have Howard over any of those guys? The only ones I think you can make an argument for would be Freeman (injury past), Fournette (injury past) and Mixon.

I'm not being a smartass; but when someone like you says with conviction that 32 GMs wouldn't take Howard over the players you mentioned, I don't find anything wrong with asking you what makes you so sure. 

Don't be so sensitive

[beardown3231]

6 minutes ago, G08 said:

I'm not being a smartass; but when someone like you says with conviction that 32 GMs wouldn't take Howard over the players you mentioned, I don't find anything wrong with asking you what makes you so sure. 

Don't be so sensitive

So you actually thought I polled GM's? Come on. That's like saying "32 NFL teams would take Khalil Mack over their best pass rusher" and responding with "did you poll all of the GM's?" All of those RB's I listed are better football players than Howard when they're on the field. I'm not trashing JH; he's a top 12 RB. That's pretty good. On that note, he's been a great 5th round pick, but I'm not about to pay a guy who isn't a game breaker and seems to be (speaking of sensitive) sensitive when I believe in the GM to find an adequate replacement in the mid rounds once again.

[SLCbear]

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

32 GM's would take Gordon, McCaffrey, Barkley, Hunt, Fournette, Johnson, Freeman, Kamara and Mixon over Howard. Sorry, boss.

That's certainly an opinion ..

[G08]

6 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

So you actually thought I polled GM's? Come on. That's like saying "32 NFL teams would take Khalil Mack over their best pass rusher" and responding with "did you poll all of the GM's?" All of those RB's I listed are better football players than Howard when they're on the field. I'm not trashing JH; he's a top 12 RB. That's pretty good. On that note, he's been a great 5th round pick, but I'm not about to pay a guy who isn't a game breaker and seems to be (speaking of sensitive) sensitive when I believe in the GM to find an adequate replacement in the mid rounds once again.

No... which is why I asked you if you did, based on your verbiage.

Khalil Mack is arguably the best defensive player in football right now. That's comparing apples to oranges.

[beardown3231]

5 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

That's certainly an opinion ..

Perhaps, but not as out-there as "Jordan Howard's the 4th best in RB." I don't think anyone, even the "don't trade Howard" fans, would agree with that.

I'll let this one go. No sense in arguing. Again, I doubt (and I hope that he doesn't) that Howard gets traded now. If anything, it'll be next year.

[G08]

I don't want to see Howard get traded, but I'll maintain that he looks better behind a zone blocking run scheme than this power scheme we are running.

Still... it's only been 4 games and 64 rushes for the young man. For all we know, he'll get 25 carries Sunday afternoon and drop a buck fiddy.

[abstract_thought]

57 minutes ago, G08 said:

I don't want to see Howard get traded, but I'll maintain that he looks better behind a zone blocking run scheme than this power scheme we are running.

Still... it's only been 4 games and 64 rushes for the young man. For all we know, he'll get 25 carries Sunday afternoon and drop a buck fiddy.

Based on the backs Nagy had in KC, I'd guess the Bears will look for a more complete player who can contribute more heavily in the passing game. Howard is a solid runner but he doesn't hold up to the other "feature backs" in this area.

[Sugashane]

4 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

32 GM's would take Gordon, McCaffrey, Barkley, Hunt, Fournette, Johnson, Freeman, Kamara and Mixon over Howard. Sorry, boss.

I think that is a far too simplistic view. Need to look at what they will cost or what it cost to get them too.

Bell is looking for a huge deal, reportedly about $15 mil per year. If he hits FA someone will be stupid enough to overpay him INO. If Howard gets $8-10 mil per year then I'd bet over half the GMs would take Howard at the lower total and invest the rest in the team. Gurley will get a monster deal as well. Fournette is averaging under 4 YPC for his a career with a better cast than Howard had his first 2 years around him. Some games he looks great but gets shut down way too often. McCaffery is growing but last year he wasn't much more than a checkdown beast, let's see him consistently produce for at least one season. Johnson hasn't looked good this year. In his prime no doubt but IDK if he will get that back. I'm not taking Mixon over Howard, by proven NFL talent or off-field concerns. Gordon has been able to secure goal line TDs and is a much better receiver but hasn't been a stud runner over his career and Freeman have injury concerns as well, etc.

Kamara and Hunt are special no doubt but can they consistently do well running in Soldier Field late in the year? Barkley is looking great but do you really think all 32 GMs would spend the 2nd overall pick on a RB when they could have Howard in the 5th? I don't, especially if the value of RBs is supposedly down.

 

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

The issue with trading Howard is that his skillset is no longer highly valued by NFL teams. Part of this is due to the increased use of backs in the passing game and part is due to the prevalence of players with similar athletic profiles who can do the same things Howard does.

Fans may overvalue backs like this because 5-10 years ago you could build teams around them. That's not the case anymore. Philadelphia just lost Ajayi for the year and they have another similar guy in Clement waiting to step into that role. The Patriots' backfield has centered around James White and a bunch of unknown short yardage backs.

As long as he's not a distraction, it makes little sense to trade Howard now. His value to the Bears this season likely exceeds the future value Pace could get for him. I think next offseason is a more sensible time to address his situation with the Bears and potentially look at younger, more dynamic options.

Some of your points ironically conflict with Beardown's. If pass production is important then Fournette's stock drops. If backs are overvalued then Howard's total value would rise as most of these guys are either very high picks and/or will likely make significantly more than he will on their 2nd deal. So why go with a $13 mil option when you can have 3 guys for $10 mil, and not have to bank on the health of one person to ensure the offense thrives?

What the Pat's do is almost irrelevant. Their offense revolves around Brady, the potential GOAT. Look at Blount's massive production when he was in NE the last year as the feature back, who matches very similarly to Howard. Beat the hell out of what anyone else has gotten them. But because Brady is a beast the run game is almost always in a pretty favorable situation (who loads the box against Brady? lol). Doing the same thing isn't really something that can just be found. Howard has averaged 4.5 YPC over his career, if he continues that for the 150 carries or so that puts him at tied for 38th in NFL history (counting QBs like Vick, Cunningham, Newton). It isn't a stretch to believe he will get rolling like he usually does. It is a stretch to say that can be easily found elsewhere IMO. Especially with a young QB that needs to have help. I don't want to get a scrub to par with Cohen and Cunningham then lose Cohen. That is a nightmare for Tru.

I agree with your point on how it is fairly senseless to trade now. It just makes me laugh that we name 10 guys that most GMs would rather have than Howard, while ignoring those 32 GMs would take Howard over 150 other RBs right now. It could be said the same with Trubisky. There are 10 QBs almost any GM would take over Tru right now, but that doesn't mean we say **** it and move on. Fans are just ridiculously reactionary.

 

EDIT - just saw you last post. That makes sense, but only if we get a decent value for Howard too. But the issue there is Nagy didn't have personnel control in KC, he had to work with what he had (not a bad thing, they were loaded). We have seen they clearly are going a different route with our team than KCs. If we were going to be as reliant on speed we would have went hard after Watkins over Robinson, for example.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

I don't want to see Howard get traded, but I'll maintain that he looks better behind a zone blocking run scheme than this power scheme we are running.

Still... it's only been 4 games and 64 rushes for the young man. For all we know, he'll get 25 carries Sunday afternoon and drop a buck fiddy.

If Trubisky can throw for 350 and 6 TDs I'm not betting against a FAR more likely event of Howard getting that.  lol

[dll2000]

6 hours ago, SLCbear said:

Gurley yes, Zeke yes, LeVeon ya probably .. McCaffery and Saquon are certainly on the rise but not ahead of Howard, yet  .. the rest of your list really shows your bias/disrespect for Howard. You must be a stats guy cause you're clearly not watching Bears games .. go check Howard's stats since entering the league, they don't lie ! 

McCaffery and Saquon are more valuable on market because they are RBs and viable downfield receivers. 

Same with Zeke, Gurley and LeVeon.  

McCaffery struggled between tackles prior to this year, but makes up for it in passing game.

Saquon is a special talent and may be best of bunch.  He just plays on a bad team with a QB past his expiration date.