lark25 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Banogu is a sparq freak id say high ceiling but inconsistent player from memory? If I were a GM probably in the 30s but there’s a lot of good athletes great players at the position this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 5 hours ago, lark25 said: Banogu is a sparq freak id say high ceiling but inconsistent player from memory? If I were a GM probably in the 30s but there’s a lot of good athletes great players at the position this year I really like Banogu. I read somewhere that he was kind of slow, but the tape didn't support that theory. I didn't even see his times at the combine, but he's got some awesome burst and bend. Plus while he's not a powerhouse, he's got a twitched up frame. I wouldn't even call him inconsistent. He regularly got pressures in the games I watched him play and while his sack numbers weren't astronomical, I'd imagine his QB hurries were up there with the best in the nation. Plus he's got some great hips and could be a 3-4 OLB convert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, BrownLeader said: Gives you a stat point and video clips showing that he can and did hold the edge well in 18', but... it's I that doesn't get it......ok. You're seriously trying to pass off of a stat and a YouTube highlight of 8 plays (only 3 of which were highly effective) as something I'm supposed to be convinced of? So I'm supposed to be convinced that the 6'2 250lb tweener can anchor vs a guy like Trent Williams for a whole game at the next level? Pffffft, you can put all of your eggs in that basket, I'm certainly not. Edited March 6, 2019 by MSURacerDT55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I've gotta say, i didn't come away from Joe Jackson's tape initially feeling that overwhelmed by him. But after the combine, specifically the conversion drills...i was really surprised to see how good he looked moving around and in space. Kinda makes me buy into @BleedTheClock heavy pimping of his stock. I think Joe Jackson could be a really solid starting OLB for someone, in the right defense. Who racks up a lot of sacks in the process. But he's gonna have to land in the right front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said: You're seriously trying to pass off of a stat and a YouTube highlight of 8 plays (only 3 of which were highly effective) as something I'm supposed to be convinced of? So I'm supposed to be convinced that the 6'2 250lb tweener can anchor vs a guy like Trent Williams for a whole game at the next level? Pffffft, you can put all of your eggs in that basket, I'm certainly not. The guy checked in at 6'3" 256. Are you really arguing that he can't set the edge solely on the basis of his size? Here are some current EDGEs with the H/W from the Combine: Von Miller - 6'3" 246 Randy Gregory - 6'5" 235 Danielle Hunter - 6'5" 252 Dee Ford - 6'2" 252 DeMarcus Lawrence - 6'3" 251 T.J. Watt - 6'4" 252 Tak McKinley - 6'2" 250 Leonard Floyd - 6'6" 244 Khalil Mack - 6'3" 251 Bruce Irvin - 6'3" 245 Jerry Hughes - 6'2" 255 Jason Worilds - 6'1" 254 That's going back to 2010 (and I might not have caught everybody). You're going to have to help me out here. I know you know football. Give us something more than, "He just can't do it" and Winovich's height and weight. Are you alleging that he's too weak overall? Are you alleging that his technique or instincts are lacking? Are you alleging that he lacks the anchor? Why can't he set the edge? Because his height/weight combo are comparable to Khalil Mack's and Von Miller's. Now, obviously, both of those guys are freaks. But his height and weight alone aren't the reason. 50 minutes ago, Tugboat said: I've gotta say, i didn't come away from Joe Jackson's tape initially feeling that overwhelmed by him. But after the combine, specifically the conversion drills...i was really surprised to see how good he looked moving around and in space. Kinda makes me buy into @BleedTheClock heavy pimping of his stock. I think Joe Jackson could be a really solid starting OLB for someone, in the right defense. Who racks up a lot of sacks in the process. But he's gonna have to land in the right front. Jackson is your typical boom/bust prospect. He should land somewhere in the late second to mid third. The reason I am concerned is with the coaching he received, I feel he should be a better player. Edited March 6, 2019 by jrry32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: The guy checked in at 6'3" 256. Are you really arguing that he can't set the edge solely on the basis of his size? Here are some current EDGEs with the H/W from the Combine: Von Miller - 6'3" 246 Randy Gregory - 6'5" 235 Danielle Hunter - 6'5" 252 Dee Ford - 6'2" 252 T.J. Watt - 6'4" 252 Tak McKinley - 6'2" 250 Leonard Floyd - 6'6" 244 Khalil Mack - 6'3" 251 Bruce Irvin - 6'3" 245 Jerry Hughes - 6'2" 255 Jason Worilds - 6'1" 254 That's going back to 2010 (and I might not have caught everybody). You're going to have to help me out here. I know you know football. Give us something more than, "He just can't do it" and Winovich's height and weight. Are you alleging that he's too weak overall? Are you alleging that his technique or instincts are lacking? Are you alleging that he lacks the anchor? Why can't he set the edge? Because his height/weight combo are comparable to Khalil Mack's and Von Miller's. Now, obviously, both of those guys are freaks. But his height and weight alone aren't the reason. Jackson is your typical boom/bust prospect. He should land somewhere in the late second to mid third. The reason I am concerned is with the coaching he received, I feel he should be a better player. That was a waste of kilobytes, you know exactly what I mean, I'm not a fan and people are making him out to be better than he really is, I'm not going to get on a bandwagon and pump him up, If you want to wave pom poms for he guy go ahead, I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, jrry32 said: The guy checked in at 6'3" 256. Are you really arguing that he can't set the edge solely on the basis of his size? Here are some current EDGEs with the H/W from the Combine: Von Miller - 6'3" 246 Randy Gregory - 6'5" 235 Danielle Hunter - 6'5" 252 Dee Ford - 6'2" 252 DeMarcus Lawrence - 6'3" 251 T.J. Watt - 6'4" 252 Tak McKinley - 6'2" 250 Leonard Floyd - 6'6" 244 Khalil Mack - 6'3" 251 Bruce Irvin - 6'3" 245 Jerry Hughes - 6'2" 255 Jason Worilds - 6'1" 254 That's going back to 2010 (and I might not have caught everybody). You're going to have to help me out here. I know you know football. Give us something more than, "He just can't do it" and Winovich's height and weight. Are you alleging that he's too weak overall? Are you alleging that his technique or instincts are lacking? Are you alleging that he lacks the anchor? Why can't he set the edge? Because his height/weight combo are comparable to Khalil Mack's and Von Miller's. Now, obviously, both of those guys are freaks. But his height and weight alone aren't the reason. I mean, to be fair...almost all of these guys are more Rush LBers. Winovich is gonna have to get stronger to find his real home as an NFLer i think. He's a bit of a tweener right now, in that he's got the traits and play style of a bigger dude who can really anchor down, but doesn't have that kind of robustness. Doesn't have the twitch to play on the edge. He's going to have to add bulk/strength/power and find a home as a DE somewhere. And i'd bet he does it...eventually. 5 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Jackson is your typical boom/bust prospect. He should land somewhere in the late second to mid third. The reason I am concerned is with the coaching he received, I feel he should be a better player. Yeah. I can't definitely see the bust potential there too with Joe Jackson. That Day2 range seems about right as a gamble. I think it's fair to worry about why he hasn't really progressed as the athletic gifts suggest...but he has the potential to be that really disruptive rotational/secondary pass rusher anyway. Even if he doesn't become much more sophisticated than he is now. That's a "bust" if he's drafted high enough...but at a certain point...that sort of upside is a "win" even if he never progresses technically. It's one thing if you draft a Dante Fowler at the top of the draft...it's another thing entirely if you grab them on Day 2. I was just really surprised by how he looked in those "conversion drills". Wasn't just "decent". Guy almost looked like he might not be that out of place as a 4-3 SAM type. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: That was a waste of kilobytes, you know exactly what I mean, I'm not a fan and people are making him out to be better than he really is, I'm not going to get on a bandwagon and pump him up, If you want to wave pom poms for he guy go ahead, I'm not. What I want is to hear your take. I don't want a curt statement. I respect your opinion, which is why I am asking for it. I like Winovich. But I want to hear your explanation for why you don't (especially with regard to him as a run stopper). After I hear your explanation, I can look when I watch him next to see if I see what you're seeing. I try not to make my mind up about prospects. If somebody makes an interesting observation, I will go back and rewatch a guy to see if I missed it. That is why I am asking you to elaborate. Size, alone, isn't the reason. Where is he deficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tugboat said: I mean, to be fair...almost all of these guys are more Rush LBers. Winovich is gonna have to get stronger to find his real home as an NFLer i think. He's a bit of a tweener right now, in that he's got the traits and play style of a bigger dude who can really anchor down, but doesn't have that kind of robustness. Doesn't have the twitch to play on the edge. He's going to have to add bulk/strength/power and find a home as a DE somewhere. And i'd bet he does it...eventually. I think he fits really well in our 3-4 as an OLB. I understand why the Steelers might not value him (since they give their 3-4 OLBs legit coverage responsibilities), but in Wade's, the coverage responsibilities aren't too challenging and aren't overly common for the role Winovich would play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 It seems like a lot of Raider fans are preferring Burns over Allen at this point, which blows my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: you know exactly what I mean Can't you just say it explicitly so everyone understands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Anyone seen much of Combine heroes Maxx Crosby, John Cominsky or Jordan Brailford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 24 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: It seems like a lot of Raider fans are preferring Burns over Allen at this point, which blows my mind. Yeah, that's a head scratcher. I could understand Montez Sweat getting the rocket up his rear based on his film, Senior Bowl, and Combine, but Burns? Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I think he fits really well in our 3-4 as an OLB. I understand why the Steelers might not value him (since they give their 3-4 OLBs legit coverage responsibilities), but in Wade's, the coverage responsibilities aren't too challenging and aren't overly common for the role Winovich would play. I mean, it's possible...but using Wade's defense as a litmus test for where guys can, or are likely to play in the rest of the NFL...isn't great imo. He's made a career of turning otherwise mediocre pass rusher into productive OLBs. And it's still really not just about coverage responsibilities vs rushing the passer. He's turned beastly pass rushers into pumpkins too. Edited March 6, 2019 by Tugboat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tugboat said: I mean, it's possible...but using Wade's defense as a litmus test for where guys can, or are likely to play in the rest of the NFL...isn't great imo. He's made a career of turning otherwise mediocre pass rusher into productive OLBs. And it's still really not just about coverage responsibilities vs rushing the passer. He's turned beastly pass rushers into pumpkins too. I evaluate players for my team, not for the rest of the NFL. Each specific scheme is going to differ. IMO, people on here tend to generalize. I see Winovich as a fit in plenty of schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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