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2019 Draft - Edge Rushers

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21 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

Could just be the games I watched.  I like Burns but after watching him against Miami, I noticed he didn't win a single time going inside.  All of his wins in that game was running the arc.

Watched Winovich against ND, and he was beastly.  Watched Gary and of course Winovich jumped off the screen in that game.

Watched some Josh Allen as well against Georgia and...I have some concerns...

To be fair, I'm more talking Polite. As most everyone in this forum knows, Burns isn't my guy. I don't want him. But others are head over heels for him. I haven't evaluated Gary because he's not in play for the Rams.

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8 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

To be fair, I'm more talking Polite. As most everyone in this forum knows, Burns isn't my guy. I don't want him. But others are head over heels for him. I haven't evaluated Gary because he's not in play for the Rams.

Ah, I like Polite.  Pre-draft process obviously is a red flag, but he looked good on film.  Problem is he doesn't look like he can add "good" weight, but let's see what an NFL team can do with him...

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7 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

Ah, I like Polite.  Pre-draft process obviously is a red flag, but he looked good on film.  Problem is he doesn't look like he can add "good" weight, but let's see what an NFL team can do with him...

I think the mistake he made was trying to put on too much weight. I think he can play around 250 with good weight. But trying to be closer to 260 to prove he can play in a 4-3 was a huge mistake.

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1 hour ago, TheVillain112 said:

Could just be the games I watched.  I like Burns but after watching him against Miami, I noticed he didn't win a single time going inside.  All of his wins in that game was running the arc.

Watched Winovich against ND, and he was beastly.  Watched Gary and of course Winovich jumped off the screen in that game.

Watched some Josh Allen as well against Georgia and...I have some concerns...

Don’t remember seeing a high caliber prospect this draft get dominated by a TE like I did Josh Allen vs UGA.

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2 hours ago, ClutchDJ said:

Don’t remember seeing a high caliber prospect this draft get dominated by a TE like I did Josh Allen vs UGA.

For real.  He made some good plays unblocked, and was amazing in coverage.  When rushing the passer through, the TEs (especially 89) held their own.  When he did face an OT he was shut down completely...

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Glad to see people realizing Allen is overrated and Winovich > Gary. Could see Allen fall into the teens on draft day honestly. Somebody tumbles every year. 

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Nick Bosa has average explosion, but excellent functional strength. His ceiling is Aaron Kampman. He lumbers a bit around the corner and his strength and technique advantage will be more limited on the next level. He doesn't have elite fluidity or bend or explosion, and most (all?) of the All-Pro level rushers in the NFL have at least one of these.

Looks more like a top 25 "solid" high floor prospect than a top 5 high ceiling guy.

Prove me wrong.

 

Also, I think Josh Allen is only slightly above Bosa. He has a little higher potential IMO. 

I'd rank my edge: Burns, Sweat, Allen, Bosa as the 1st rounders this year.

Edited by incognito_man

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12 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Nick Bosa has average explosion, but excellent functional strength. His ceiling is Aaron Kampman. He lumbers a bit around the corner and his strength and technique advantage will be more limited on the next level. He doesn't have elite fluidity or bend or explosion, and most (all?) of the All-Pro level rushers in the NFL have at least one of these.

Looks more like a top 25 "solid" high floor prospect than a top 5 high ceiling guy.

Prove me wrong.

 

Also, I think Josh Allen is only slightly above Bosa. He has a little higher potential IMO. 

I'd rank my edge: Burns, Sweat, Allen, Bosa as the 1st rounders this year.

Disagree. There are plenty of examples of great/elite pass rushers throughout the past 20 or so years who dominated due to power, punch, and technical skill (hand usage, rush moves, rush plans, etc.). While Bosa isn't elite in terms of fluidity, bend, or explosion, he's also not totally lacking those attributes. I'd say Ryan Kerrigan is a better comparison than Kampman, and I don't think that's his ceiling at all.

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5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Disagree. There are plenty of examples of great/elite pass rushers throughout the past 20 or so years who dominated due to power, punch, and technical skill (hand usage, rush moves, rush plans, etc.). While Bosa isn't elite in terms of fluidity, bend, or explosion, he's also not totally lacking those attributes. I'd say Ryan Kerrigan is a better comparison than Kampman, and I don't think that's his ceiling at all.

I'm curious who some of those elite rushers are and how their athleticism actually looked.

I do like the Ryan Kerrigan comp as well. I liked him coming out. Would you take Ryan Kerrigan top 3?

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25 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Would you take Ryan Kerrigan top 3?

Kind of an unfair question. Depends on the draft lol.

But honestly, yeah. If you get there type of production he's given from a top three pick, I think you did fine. 60 sacks over there last five years, never missed a game. Led the league one year in tackles for loss too... He's a perfectly fine top 3 pick. 

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7 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I'm curious who some of those elite rushers are and how their athleticism actually looked.

I do like the Ryan Kerrigan comp as well. I liked him coming out. Would you take Ryan Kerrigan top 3?

It depends on who is available, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it. As for other examples, I could toss out Reggie White, but I imagine you'd argue that his explosion and fluidity were elite for his size. Instead, I'll throw out five names: Aldon Smith, Jared Allen, Terrell Suggs, Frank Clark, and Michael Bennett. If you compare Nick Bosa's combine performances to Aldon Smith's and Jared Allen's, they have a lot of similarities. Obviously, those are best case scenarios, but Bosa has the sort of skill-set both those guys possessed. We'll see how he develops.

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5 minutes ago, Forge said:

Kind of an unfair question. Depends on the draft lol.

But honestly, yeah. If you get there type of production he's given from a top three pick, I think you did fine. 60 sacks over there last five years, never missed a game. Led the league one year in tackles for loss too... He's a perfectly fine top 3 pick. 

Yes, true. I think he'd definitely be considered a good pick with his production. But he was a mid 1st rounder as well. I think Bosa is a fine mid/late 1st round guy. Just don't see the high ceiling that I'd want to invest a top 2-3 pick in.

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7 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Yes, true. I think he'd definitely be considered a good pick with his production. But he was a mid 1st rounder as well. I think Bosa is a fine mid/late 1st round guy. Just don't see the high ceiling that I'd want to invest a top 2-3 pick in.

In fairness, he was a mid round pick in potentially the most stacked upper first round of the last two decades. It's certainly  up there. Everyone in the top 16 with the exception of the terrible quarterbacks and Nick fairley made at least one pro bowl. If he had come out in 2013 instead, I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash at him in the top three or so

 

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19 minutes ago, Forge said:

In fairness, he was a mid round pick in potentially the most stacked upper first round of the last two decades. It's certainly  up there. Everyone in the top 16 with the exception of the terrible quarterbacks and Nick fairley made at least one pro bowl. If he had come out in 2013 instead, I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash at him in the top three or so

 

lordy that was a stacked class...

2010 was a schitty year to win a SB and pick 32.

Edited by incognito_man

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