game3525 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Quote Oh lord the Rodgers needs more help narrative Pugger is right. If you compare the offensive schemes Brees and Brady are playing in and then look at the concepts McCarthy runs every week, there is no question that Rodgers has been dealt a poor hand. Just imagine what Rodgers could do if he was playing under someone like Kyle Shanahan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotsWin! Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Brady - 2004 Brees- 2009 Rodgers- 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Misread the second elite as "Eli status" Was like WTF. Had to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 12 hours ago, game3525 said: Pugger is right. If you compare the offensive schemes Brees and Brady are playing in and then look at the concepts McCarthy runs every week, there is no question that Rodgers has been dealt a poor hand. Just imagine what Rodgers could do if he was playing under someone like Kyle Shanahan? The thing is everyone knows how good Rodgers is no matter his supporting cast. Team success would be helped with better rosters but Rodgers does what he does either way and only the lack of championships will hurt his legacy and that is only a tiebreaker for those who know what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Just now, Thomas5737 said: The thing is everyone knows how good Rodgers is no matter his supporting cast. Team success would be helped with better rosters but Rodgers does what he does either way and only the lack of championships will hurt his legacy and that is only a tiebreaker for those who know what they are talking about. Idk. Here's Rodgers ultimate legacy issue, aside from passer rating, he's not going to go down as an all time stat great like Brady/Manning/Brees. He started too late in his career and has been injured too often at this point. He also plays a more athletic and physical style, so his shelf life will likely be worse (I think he's already a little bit on the outside of his prime and past his 2011-2014 peak years). Alot of his argument is something like "he just does all these amazing things that I've never seen before". Which is something people said about Marino, Young, Favre, etc. Legacy wise that doesn't last because in 20 years there will be more fans who didn't watch Rodgers and all they have to go off of is what's on paper. It's unfortunate but guys like Bradshaw and Namath get judged as bad QB's for similar reasons. People look more at their stat lines without actually having watched them. Rodgers will likely go down as a top 5 for fringe top 5 for those who watched him. Like Marino some will say he's the best they ever saw play. But it's hard to see a real possibility of it being much more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, lancerman said: Idk. Here's Rodgers ultimate legacy issue, aside from passer rating, he's not going to go down as an all time stat great like Brady/Manning/Brees. He started too late in his career and has been injured too often at this point. He also plays a more athletic and physical style, so his shelf life will likely be worse (I think he's already a little bit on the outside of his prime and past his 2011-2014 peak years). Alot of his argument is something like "he just does all these amazing things that I've never seen before". Which is something people said about Marino, Young, Favre, etc. Legacy wise that doesn't last because in 20 years there will be more fans who didn't watch Rodgers and all they have to go off of is what's on paper. It's unfortunate but guys like Bradshaw and Namath get judged as bad QB's for similar reasons. People look more at their stat lines without actually having watched them. Rodgers will likely go down as a top 5 for fringe top 5 for those who watched him. Like Marino some will say he's the best they ever saw play. But it's hard to see a real possibility of it being much more than that. Well Young started late, at least the second time and while he isn't a consensus top 5 all time he is in some top 5 lists. Brees, Young and Marino would all be in my top 5 but I don't expect everyone to agree. Unless you collect titles like Brady/Montana you aren't going to dominate every top 5 QB list. Rodgers will be fine, yeah he won't have the total bulk stats as some of the others but you can look at his TD and INT percentages you don't have to just look at total TDs or total yards to make up your mind. Although he is already top 10 in TD passes and should end up in the top 5 when he retires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Well Young started late, at least the second time and while he isn't a consensus top 5 all time he is in some top 5 lists. Brees, Young and Marino would all be in my top 5 but I don't expect everyone to agree. Unless you collect titles like Brady/Montana you aren't going to dominate every top 5 QB list. Rodgers will be fine, yeah he won't have the total bulk stats as some of the others but you can look at his TD and INT percentages you don't have to just look at total TDs or total yards to make up your mind. Although he is already top 10 in TD passes and should end up in the top 5 when he retires. Yeah I'm not saying he isn't great. I'm just saying his longterm legacy will be harder to define. He's not going to be like Manning or Marino who when they retired owned most of the book on QB stats. He's not going to win 4-5 Super Bowls to put him up there with Brady and Montana. Eye test is really his biggest argument legacy wise. And the closest comparison to him is someone like Young. Young could basically do everything Rodgers did, he didn't have a long enough career to accumulate the stats, 2x MVP, and he only got one Super Bowl. People who remember him think he's one of the best they ever saw, but more people who started watching after him began to overlook him. I think Young's kind of a good predicative case study on what Rodgers legacy could look like 15 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 21 hours ago, King Joffrey said: Oh lord the Rodgers needs more help narrative Seriously?? EVERY QB needs a good team around him. Not even Brady can do it all by himself. Why is it that so many here say the Packers are just Rodgers and bunch of JAGs and that is why he hasn't been more successful but when a Packers fans points that out we are just giving excuses as to why we haven't won it since 2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 9 hours ago, Pugger said: Seriously?? EVERY QB needs a good team around him. Not even Brady can do it all by himself. Why is it that so many here say the Packers are just Rodgers and bunch of JAGs and that is why he hasn't been more successful but when a Packers fans points that out we are just giving excuses as to why we haven't won it since 2010? Brady took a pretty crap team to the 2013 AFCCG and likely would have made it to a Super Bowl if he didn't run into a historic offense (on a team he beat earlier in the season). Brady generally has pretty good teams but Rodgers has had some really strong teams too that didn't get it done (2014) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargers Posted October 27, 2018 Author Share Posted October 27, 2018 1 hour ago, lancerman said: Brady took a pretty crap team to the 2013 AFCCG and likely would have made it to a Super Bowl if he didn't run into a historic offense (on a team he beat earlier in the season). Brady generally has pretty good teams but Rodgers has had some really strong teams too that didn't get it done (2014) Don't forget 2011 15-1 Packers team home divisional loss to the NY Giants and 2013 Wild Card loss at home vs SF. Rodgers has had some notable teams, he along with the Packers have wasted the few golden seasons to bring home another SB win since 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 The 2011 Packers were not a strong team at all. They were awful defensively and the only thing they really did well that year was passing the ball. Them losing to a more complete Giants team wasn't all that surprising in hindsight. And the 2013 Packers losing to SF says nothing about Rodgers. The Niners were likely the second best team in the entire league that season. 2013 was one of the rare years where the super bowl was played in the championship game (in this case the NFC championship). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Rodgers was pretty banged up for the 2013 game, wasn't he? That was a damn good 49ers team too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargers Posted October 27, 2018 Author Share Posted October 27, 2018 1 hour ago, game3525 said: The 2011 Packers were not a strong team at all. They were awful defensively and the only thing they really did well that year was passing the ball. Them losing to a more complete Giants team wasn't all that surprising in hindsight. And the 2013 Packers losing to SF says nothing about Rodgers. The Niners were likely the second best team in the entire league that season. 2013 was one of the rare years where the super bowl was played in the championship game (in this case the NFC championship). They didn't just pass well in 2011, they had a historic season passing. It may sound unfair but that's a playoff game, you have to win considering how amazing the Packers offense was that season. As for 2013 that 49ers defense wasn't nearly has good as 2012 and or as Elite as it's 2011 counterpart, as could be seen in the game because the Packers weren't blown out like they were when Kaepernick ran all over them the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megatechpc Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Matt Ryan - 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 9 hours ago, iknowcool said: Rodgers was pretty banged up for the 2013 game, wasn't he? That was a damn good 49ers team too. Yes, he missed a lot of that season after breaking his left collarbone against the Bears earlier that season. We won the division with a big TD play to Cobb in Chicago in the last game of that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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