Fl0nkerton Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: Rudolph is a much, much, much better blocker. Eh, fair enough. I think it's moot though since we're running the ball better than they are in most statistical categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: Rams - You could put just about any member of their OL up there. Joyner is very good too. And 3 very nice WRs. Vikings - Also Thielen, maybe Cooks if healthy, Linval. Jags - Jack, Yannick, Fournette(if healthy), Linder Saints - agree Steelers - Watt would be a 5th. Juju. Bell or Connor. Chargers - Rivers, Gordon, Allen, Hayward, Bosa, Melvin, Derwin Redskins - Trent, Moses, both DTs, Kerrigan, Norman(maybe), AP, Reed Chiefs - Mahomes, Tyreek, Kelce, Houston, Jones, Kareem Even a team like the Titans - Byard, Casey, Lewan, Conklin...nevermind on the 5th there. Houston - Watt, Clowney, Mathieu, Nuke, maybe Watson Panthers - Cam, McCaffrey, Olsen, Moton, Kuechly, Short Almost harder to find teams without that. Every above average player in the league is not a top 100 player. You should only be looking at the to 6 or 7 guys at their position for spots with only one of them in the field at once. You've mentioned 49 players outside of my list of about 20 and only discussed 11 teams. You're talking about a top 200 list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Every above average player in the league is not a top 100 player. You should only be looking at the to 6 or 7 guys at their position for spots with only one of them in the field at once. You've mentioned 49 players outside of my list of about 20 and only discussed 11 teams. You're talking about a top 200 list. I'm probably a bit high on some of them...but I think you could make very good arguments for putting the vast majority of them into a top 100 list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, Kenrik said: Not great analysis......... Rodgers should have went with the pitch because there were 5 guys on that side and 6 on the other side.... The safety is up in the box 2' to the right. How does Andy consider that on one side. He is even facing the pitch side which would allow him to not waste a step turning. Not saying anything about what's his names take, but AR's read there is terrible. Any talking head can likely pick 1-10 plays a game for the good QB's and see where they could have done better. With that said EQ isn't going anywhere and is covered and has a guy over the top. AR needs to see that and take another option. It's widely noted on this forum and most that AR needs to play better, our play calling needs to be better to help him play better. No screens again in this game. Maybe as Outpost says AR can't throw them, well darn well maybe practice is. Oh forgot we're a vertical team:) This stuff is on both coach and QB, MM needs to be in AR's ear and have him right. If he can't then get someone who can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 30 minutes ago, Kenrik said: Not great analysis......... Rodgers should have went with the pitch because there were 5 guys on that side and 6 on the other side.... The safety is up in the box 2' to the right. How does Andy consider that on one side. He is even facing the pitch side which would allow him to not waste a step turning. You'd be giving AJ path to the wide side of the field with blockers in front. Everybody RAVES what a playmaker he is - at every (perceived) opportunity - so now what? We're gonna parse the fact there could be some defenders in front of him? A cut or missed tackle - he does stand the better chance to gain more positive yardage than the short pass to EQ - thats all Herman's saying here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Ragnarok said: Definitely disagree with this list. QB - Packers RB - Vikings - Yeah, Jones has flashed, but Cooks has been great when healthy and Murray has been consistently very good WR - Vikings TE - Vikings - Rudolph is better than Graham right now. OT - Packers OG - Push - Neither side is very good OC - Packers - Linsley has been very good this year. Edge - Vikings by a lot. DT - Packers by a tiny bit. LB - Push - The Viking LBs haven't been as good this year as Martinez has been very good. CB - Vikings - Rhodes is elite and the rest of their guys have been solid. Hughes looked real good too. But Packers could end up better here next year. S - Vikings by a lot. A couple of things. I'm with AG#20 on the RBs. There might be a slight lean towards the Vikings because of Murray, but I think you're letting draft status affect your judgment on this one. If Aaron Jones was the 2nd round pick and Dalvin Cook was the 5th round pick, would you still be saying the same thing? Aaron Jones has outproduced Dalvin Cook on a per attempt basis, and on bulk numbers. Jones has ~50 more snaps than Aaron Jones did despite "playing" in 10 more games than Cook fwiw. This is clsoer than I think you choose to admit. TEs - Jimmy Graham is clearly the better receiving option of the two, Kyle Rudolph is the better blocker of the two. Probably depends on which one you need for your offense, but I'd probably give a slight edge to the Packers liked I'd give a slight edge to RB to the Vikings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Ragnarok said: Rudolph is a much, much, much better blocker. And Graham is a much better receiver despite what the numbers might say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: A couple of things. I'm with AG#20 on the RBs. There might be a slight lean towards the Vikings because of Murray, but I think you're letting draft status affect your judgment on this one. If Aaron Jones was the 2nd round pick and Dalvin Cook was the 5th round pick, would you still be saying the same thing? Aaron Jones has outproduced Dalvin Cook on a per attempt basis, and on bulk numbers. Jones has ~50 more snaps than Aaron Jones did despite "playing" in 10 more games than Cook fwiw. This is clsoer than I think you choose to admit. TEs - Jimmy Graham is clearly the better receiving option of the two, Kyle Rudolph is the better blocker of the two. Probably depends on which one you need for your offense, but I'd probably give a slight edge to the Packers liked I'd give a slight edge to RB to the Vikings. On RB, I guess I just want more consistency and fewer fumbles. And Cook at his best was phenomenal. For TE, Rudolph isn't chopped liver in the passing game, and is a much better blocker. I think they are a bit closer in receiving than blocking which gives Rudolph the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenrik Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Leader said: You'd be giving AJ path to the wide side of the field with blockers in front. Everybody RAVES what a playmaker he is - at every (perceived) opportunity - so now what? We're gonna parse the fact there could be some defenders in front of him? A cut or missed tackle - he does stand the better chance to gain more positive yardage than the short pass to EQ - thats all Herman's saying here. Did you watch the clip? Its Jamal Williams not Aaron Jones out there. PRESNAP-The same could be said for EQ and that's why Rodgers went that direction. Honestly to me it looks like man to man with the Saftey or Linebacker in the box covering Jamal. So the deep safety on the right side would be on EQ the outside WR and the CB is on the slot guy. With a quick out that safety wouldn't have time to cover 10 yards before EQ gets that. Rodgers thought was quick throw to EQ and he'll have 3 yards to make a play on the safety 1 on 1 and then its nothing but endzone if he could beat him. Postsnap you can see its cover three and the safety in the box goes deep and the better play would have been the pitch but the LB is blitzing so Rodgers doesn't have as much time to adjust and get it to Jamal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: On RB, I guess I just want more consistency and fewer fumbles. And Cook at his best was phenomenal. For TE, Rudolph isn't chopped liver in the passing game, and is a much better blocker. I think they are a bit closer in receiving than blocking which gives Rudolph the edge. You mean going back to his Florida State days? Or his 1 100+ yard game he's had in his brief NFL career? He's a much better pass catcher than Aaron Jones, but he's living off his draft status right now. I'm not saying he's not talented, but let's stop pretending like he's wildly outproducing Aaron Jones at this point. As for Graham, he's on pace for 64 receptions, 850 receiving yards, and 4 TD receptions on 110 targets. Kyle Rudolph's career high was 83 receptions, 840 receiving yards, and 7 TD receptions on 132 targets back in 2016. That's not close. Especially when you realize that this is Graham's first year in Green Bay's offense and first year playing with Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: You mean going back to his Florida State days? Or his 1 100+ yard game he's had in his brief NFL career? He's a much better pass catcher than Aaron Jones, but he's living off his draft status right now. I'm not saying he's not talented, but let's stop pretending like he's wildly outproducing Aaron Jones at this point. As for Graham, he's on pace for 64 receptions, 850 receiving yards, and 4 TD receptions on 110 targets. Kyle Rudolph's career high was 83 receptions, 840 receiving yards, and 7 TD receptions on 132 targets back in 2016. That's not close. Especially when you realize that this is Graham's first year in Green Bay's offense and first year playing with Rodgers. He looked very good before he hurt his knee last year. But I do think you can go either way. Not arguing that Jimmy isn't a better receiver, but I think Rudolph is a bit ahead when looking at both aspects. Also, Rudolph is asked to block a fair bit more than Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: He looked very good before he hurt his knee last year. But I do think you can go either way. Not arguing that Jimmy isn't a better receiver, but I think Rudolph is a bit ahead when looking at both aspects. Also, Rudolph is asked to block a fair bit more than Graham. LIS, I'm not saying Cook isn't more talented but he hasn't been able to stay healthy and he hasn't been as good as he was in Florida State. The guy has struggled with injuries the last few years. And just for fun with small sample sizes. These are career averages perception. Player A: 9.7 yards per reception, 9.2 receptions per touchdown, 1.9 receptions per game Player B: 9.7 yards per reception, 9.1 receptions per touchdown, 3.4 receptions per game Any guesses who these players are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, CWood21 said: LIS, I'm not saying Cook isn't more talented but he hasn't been able to stay healthy and he hasn't been as good as he was in Florida State. The guy has struggled with injuries the last few years. And just for fun with small sample sizes. These are career averages perception. Player A: 9.7 yards per reception, 9.2 receptions per touchdown, 1.9 receptions per game Player B: 9.7 yards per reception, 9.1 receptions per touchdown, 3.4 receptions per game Any guesses who these players are? LIS? I agree on the injuries. I think we could look at this a year now and not be surprised either way. I'll guess one is Rudolph and one is a total scrub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Ragnarok said: LIS? I agree on the injuries. I think we could look at this a year now and not be surprised either way. I'll guess one is Rudolph and one is a total scrub? Like I said. Player B is Richard Rodgers. Kyle Rudolph is an average pass catcher, and I think even Vikings' fans would be willing to admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: Like I said. Player B is Richard Rodgers. Kyle Rudolph is an average pass catcher, and I think even Vikings' fans would be willing to admit that. Ah. So if Rudolph is an average pass catcher and above average blocker, I would say Graham is an above average pass catcher and below average blocker. Which I don't think is totally crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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