Joe Flacco Hip Injury

[M.10.E]

3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Only chance Flacco has at starting again for this team is we win this week AND Lamar plays really bad. Other than that, it's Lamar's team because a Steelers player jumped offsides pre-snap and injured our starting QB. Go figure.

Never forget Flacco started his rookie year because Troy Smith got sick.

[Danand]

If we lose the next game, we can still go 10-6, and playoffs may still be in reach with a 9-7 record.

Flacco might get healthy and provide a better option if teams completely figure out to stop the Lamar Jackson offense. Or we might incorporate an offense where Flacco starts and Lamar gets complete drives to eat up clock.

[wackywabbit]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Only chance Flacco has at starting again for this team is we win this week AND Lamar plays really bad. Other than that, it's Lamar's team because a Steelers player jumped offsides pre-snap and injured our starting QB. Go figure.

Disagree. Flacco is definitely back in with a loss to Atlanta.

The Falcons game is actually the least bad game (along with the Bucs) to lose for playoff hopes. Having 3 of our losses be out of conference would gives all the tiebreakers in tie of 9 or 10 win teams. So in the case of a loss, it's actually pretty easy to go to Flacco and give him the shot to take over and earn a playoff spot with upset wins at KC and/or SD. If he does it and we get to the playoffs, great. If he doesn't we'll be out of the playoff race in a couple weeks and can go back to evaluating Lamar mode. 

From a QB decision POV, losing to the Falcons makes it easy. It'd be much tougher to go back to Flacco if Lamar is 3-0 regardless of how he plays. The coaches will have to make a tough call of whether Lamar's ready to compete against KC and SD, but they also look bad if they bench him.

[M.10.E]

Flacco's last 5 games: 4TD/4INT 242 YPG 1-4 Record.

[Danand]

34 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

Flacco's last 5 games: 4TD/4INT 242 YPG 1-4 Record.

Jacksons 2 first games: 2TD/3INT 259 YPG 2-0 Record.

But to suit your narrative, Lamar played much better defenses, and the team rallied behind him, and he makes everyone on the team better by just being on the field.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

12 minutes ago, Danand said:

Jacksons 2 first games: 2TD/3INT 259 YPG 2-0 Record.

But to suit your narrative, Lamar played much better defenses, and the team rallied behind him, and he makes everyone on the team better by just being on the field.

Well he's certainly made our running game better just by being on the field. And the offense is more efficient and scoring more than it has all year. If Lamar plays poorly next week I can certainly understand people wanting to go back to Flacco in hopes of winning out and making the playoffs, but let's not pretend that the offense isn't much more balanced and efficient with a rookie QB who is extremely raw than it was with a 10 year veteran.

[wackywabbit]

Passing stats are a garbage measure, even for a QB. How many points are they scoring per drive? How many yards per drive? How many short fields are they handing over? That's how you see if an offense is good, bad or somewhere in the middle.

The football observer community needs to catch up on that.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

Passing stats are a garbage measure, even for a QB. How many points are they scoring per drive? How many yards per drive? How many short fields are they handing over? That's how you see if an offense is good, bad or somewhere in the middle.

The football observer community needs to catch up on that.

I'm reminded of that recent Bucs game where they had like 500 yards of offense and 3 total points or something.

[DreamKid]

1 hour ago, wackywabbit said:

Passing stats are a garbage measure, even for a QB. How many points are they scoring per drive? How many yards per drive? How many short fields are they handing over? That's how you see if an offense is good, bad or somewhere in the middle.

The football observer community needs to catch up on that.

Yea. Flacco's stats are pretty meh this year, but I'm fine with the play we've gotten out of him. He's done his job in every game this season except the Bengals 1 game, Panther game, and Steelers 2 game. Recency bias and enthusiasm for Lamar Jackson have combined to form this irrational/inept evaluation of Joe's season.

The first Cinci game was a Road TNF match up against a division rival. A competitive disadvantage we shouldn't have been up against. The Panther game was bad on all fronts. And in the 2nd Steeler game Flacco sustained a 5 Week injury on the 1st drive. Which isn't to excuse his lesser play in those games, but put it in perspective. I'm not going to grade any player normally when they sustain an injury in game or pin losses directly on our QBs when our "Elite" Defense is giving up 34+. Even against the Browns, Flacco led multiple GW drives- the refs ended one and Crabtree the other.

The Kevin Byard Interception against the Titans wasn't even really a pick, the refs missed the ball hitting the ground. We pulled Flacco early against the Bills, a clear 'stat padding' opportunity. So many things fly under the radar with base stats. You have to crack the numbers open and watch the film. 

Same goes for Lamar. People are so quick to jump up and down and negatively point at his Passing Totals. Without cracking them open and highlighting the impressive efficiency for a Rookie QB embedded within. 

[AngusMcFife]

4 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

Disagree. Flacco is definitely back in with a loss to Atlanta.

The Falcons game is actually the least bad game (along with the Bucs) to lose for playoff hopes. Having 3 of our losses be out of conference would gives all the tiebreakers in tie of 9 or 10 win teams. So in the case of a loss, it's actually pretty easy to go to Flacco and give him the shot to take over and earn a playoff spot with upset wins at KC and/or SD. If he does it and we get to the playoffs, great. If he doesn't we'll be out of the playoff race in a couple weeks and can go back to evaluating Lamar mode. 

From a QB decision POV, losing to the Falcons makes it easy. It'd be much tougher to go back to Flacco if Lamar is 3-0 regardless of how he plays. The coaches will have to make a tough call of whether Lamar's ready to compete against KC and SD, but they also look bad if they bench him.

Question: if Flacco gets injured, will the Ravens be on the hook for any of his 2019 salary? 

I'd have to think the Ravens front office would want a clean break, and not have to pay an injury settlement or keep him on the roster as he is rehabbing.

I haven't seen this issue discussed, but I think it would be a major factor in their decisions in the final weeks. 

[drd23]

36 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Question: if Flacco gets injured, will the Ravens be on the hook for any of his 2019 salary? 

I'd have to think the Ravens front office would want a clean break, and not have to pay an injury settlement or keep him on the roster as he is rehabbing.

I haven't seen this issue discussed, but I think it would be a major factor in their decisions in the final weeks. 

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Secondly, reading the blurb about his contract on OverTheCap seems to indicate there could be significant injury guarantees in his contract but there's no detail about for which years they apply

Quote

Joe Flacco signed a three year contract extension with the Baltimore Ravens on March 2, 2016. The extension is worth $66.4 million in new money nd includes a $40 million signing bonus and $44 million fully guaranteed and $62 million in injury guarantees. The base salaries from the contract come from a report by the NFL's Albert Breer. Flacco had three years under contract when he signed the extension. He will earn an additional $26 million in compensation in 2016, $11.4 million in total new compensation over over two years, and $3.4 million over three years. The Ravens will reduce Flacco's 2016 cap number by $6 million and his 2017 cap number by $6.6 million

https://overthecap.com/player/joe-flacco/1383/

Spotrac on the other hand doesn't mention injury guarantees at all for his current contract (but does for his previous one signed soon after the SB victory)

[M.10.E]

Flacco isn't winning us anything this year and we all know it.

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, M.10.E said:

Flacco isn't winning us anything this year and we all know it.

I'm not so sure man. Flacco threw a game winning TD pass to get us into the playoffs last year after being down 17-3 before the defense blew it on 4th and 12. That would have been a 6-1 ending of the season led by him. 

The bottom line is we see it every year....when this team's back is against the wall, in MUST win games late in the season, Joe almost always elevates his play to one of the best players on the team. It seems like we're heading for that kind of scenario this year.

Yeah, it sucks we'll be in that position and i get that Flacco has a tendency to completely stink up random week 4-8 week games every year, but when our backs are against the wall, he delivers. We've seen it for 11 years. 

If we get into a situation where we need to win 3 or 4 of our last 4, i'm MUCH more confident in Joe doing that. Because i've seen him play well in those do or die scenarios so many more times than him laying an egg. 

Lamar is the future. But if we need to go gang busters to get into the playoffs, i'm taking Joe this year. Let's see if he doesn't have any more January Joe magic left in the tank.

[wackywabbit]

3 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Question: if Flacco gets injured, will the Ravens be on the hook for any of his 2019 salary? 

I'd have to think the Ravens front office would want a clean break, and not have to pay an injury settlement or keep him on the roster as he is rehabbing.

I haven't seen this issue discussed, but I think it would be a major factor in their decisions in the final weeks. 

I don't think that'd be much of a factor in the decision. With playoffs on the line, everyone who is cleared will play. 

Also, regarding a "clean break" Flacco's not getting cut. He'll be traded IF we decide to move on. His contract to a team trading for him would basically be a year to year deal for up to 3 years $63 million. Very favorable for a team looking for a competent short term answer. 

[AngusMcFife]

18 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

I'm not so sure man. Flacco threw a game winning TD pass to get us into the playoffs last year after being down 17-3 before the defense blew it on 4th and 12. That would have been a 6-1 ending of the season led by him. 

The bottom line is we see it every year....when this team's back is against the wall, in MUST win games late in the season, Joe almost always elevates his play to one of the best players on the team. It seems like we're heading for that kind of scenario this year.

Yeah, it sucks we'll be in that position and i get that Flacco has a tendency to completely stink up random week 4-8 week games every year, but when our backs are against the wall, he delivers. We've seen it for 11 years. 

If we get into a situation where we need to win 3 or 4 of our last 4, i'm MUCH more confident in Joe doing that. Because i've seen him play well in those do or die scenarios so many more times than him laying an egg. 

Lamar is the future. But if we need to go gang busters to get into the playoffs, i'm taking Joe this year. Let's see if he doesn't have any more January Joe magic left in the tank.

In the game you are referencing from 2017, Flacco was 25/47 for 203 yards. 

In the last two games of 2016 when we were fighting for playoffs, Flacco averaged 5.95 and 5.45 yards per attempt (that is incredibly bad) with 1 TD and 2 INTs. Both losses kept us out. 

In 2015 the Ravens lost many close games with Flacco at QB, too many to point out.

I used to have confidence in Flacco in big games, but honestly he's failed enough recently that I think his January Joe magic is gone. You can point to a throw here and there that was good, but his overall performance in recent big games hasn't been good at all.