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Report: Saints coach Sean Payton destroyed locker room fire alarm

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Woz

Woz

Posted
Posted
Just now, saintsfan said:

The only part of this story that matters is that its actually a crime to destroy a fire alarm. Not sure if anyone will press charges, but they did say that the Bengals ratted Payton out to the authorities.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2909.07

Quote

(A) No person shall:

...

(4) Without privilege to do so, knowingly move, deface, damage, destroy, or otherwise improperly tamper with any safety device, the property of another, or the property of the offender when required or placed for the safety of others, so as to destroy or diminish its effectiveness or availability for its intended purpose;

...

(B) As used in this section, "safety device" means any fire extinguisher, fire hose, or fire axe, or any fire escape, emergency exit, or emergency escape equipment, or any life line, life-saving ring, life preserver, or life boat or raft, or any alarm, light, flare, signal, sign, or notice intended to warn of danger or emergency, or intended for other safety purposes, or any guard railing or safety barricade, or any traffic sign or signal, or any railroad grade crossing sign, signal, or gate, or any first aid or survival equipment, or any other device, apparatus, or equipment intended for protecting or preserving the safety of persons or property.

(C)

(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal mischief, and shall be punished as provided in division (C)(2) or (3) of this section.

(2) Except as otherwise provided in this division, criminal mischief committed in violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of this section is a misdemeanor of the third degree. Except as otherwise provided in this division, if the violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of this section creates a risk of physical harm to any person, criminal mischief committed in violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree.

As for punishments:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2929.22
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2929.24

https://winningwithbinning.com/ohio-sentencing-chart/

Quote

MISDEMEANORS

Misdemeanor Level Jail Time Maximum Fine
M1 (First Degree) Up to 180 Days $1,000
M2 Up to 90 days $750
M3 Up to 60 days $500
M4 Up to 30 days $250
MM (Minor Misdemeanor) None $150

 

Barring a serious Bengal fan on the bench, he's getting a fine and that's it.

 

NOTE: Not a lawyer.

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Jlowe22

Jlowe22

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46 minutes ago, Woz said:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2909.07

As for punishments:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2929.22
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2929.24

https://winningwithbinning.com/ohio-sentencing-chart/

 

Barring a serious Bengal fan on the bench, he's getting a fine and that's it.

 

NOTE: Not a lawyer.

Not a lawyer either, but I thought it was a felony in Ohio.

I doubt anyone pursues felony charges if it's not a real fire.  It gets more serious if a fire alarm is destroyed while an actual fire is going on.  Still, it's a dumb thing to do, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets a hefty fine.

Edit:  Maybe the felony part is Vandalism over a certain dollar amount.  How much is a fire alarm worth?

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Woz

Woz

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Just now, Jlowe22 said:

Not a lawyer either, but I thought it was a felony in Ohio.

I doubt anyone pursues felony charges if it's not a real fire.  It gets more serious if a fire alarm is destroyed while an actual fire is going on.  Still, it's a dumb thing to do, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets a hefty fine.

Per the first link (2909.07(C)(2) continues on (but wasn't relevant to the case at hand):

Quote

If the property involved in the violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of this section is an aircraft, an aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, spare part, fuel, lubricant, hydraulic fluid, any other equipment, implement, or material used or intended to be used in the operation of an aircraft, or any cargo carried or intended to be carried in an aircraft, criminal mischief committed in violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of this section is one of the following:

(a) If the violation creates a risk of physical harm to any person, except as otherwise provided in division (C)(2)(b) of this section, criminal mischief committed in violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of this section is a felony of the fifth degree.

(b) If the violation creates a substantial risk of physical harm to any person or if the property involved in a violation of this section is an occupied aircraft, criminal mischief committed in violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of this section is a felony of the fourth degree.

2909.07 also deals with hacking in Ohio (2909.07(A)(6) and 2909.07(C)(3)), which also isn't relevant to Payton but does involve felonies in certain cases.

 

So, unless he would be charged under a separate statute in Ohio (or federal one, though I have no idea what that would be), it's a misdemeanor. As for the fine, it's $500 in Ohio. What the NFL hits him with is up to the whims of Goodell, so who knows?

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Jlowe22

Jlowe22

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7 minutes ago, Woz said:

Per the first link (2909.07(C)(2) continues on (but wasn't relevant to the case at hand):

2909.07 also deals with hacking in Ohio (2909.07(A)(6) and 2909.07(C)(3)), which also isn't relevant to Payton but does involve felonies in certain cases.

 

So, unless he would be charged under a separate statute in Ohio (or federal one, though I have no idea what that would be), it's a misdemeanor. As for the fine, it's $500 in Ohio. What the NFL hits him with is up to the whims of Goodell, so who knows?

Is this page correct, and could he be charged with Vandalism?

https://www.koffellaw.com/vandalism/

Not a lawyer I know.  I hate the law, specifically for these reasons.  Overly complex and loopholes/technicalities everywhere.

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Buc Ball

Buc Ball

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

Is this page correct, and could he be charged with Vandalism?

https://www.koffellaw.com/vandalism/

Not a lawyer I know.  I hate the law, specifically for these reasons.  Overly complex and loopholes/technicalities everywhere.

They’ll be trying to sell their services, so the opening paragraph will be unnecessarily alarming.

He’ll probably just get a fine or something and be made to pay for repairs. He could catch something from the league, but who knows. 

The problem with the law is that there are things it was intended to cover and then things that it’s specifically not intended to cover. You then get things they never thought of at the time and you get a patchwork of triple negatives.

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Jlowe22

Jlowe22

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10 minutes ago, Buc Ball said:

They’ll be trying to sell their services, so the opening paragraph will be unnecessarily alarming.

He’ll probably just get a fine or something and be made to pay for repairs. He could catch something from the league, but who knows. 

The problem with the law is that there are things it was intended to cover and then things that it’s specifically not intended to cover. You then get things they never thought of at the time and you get a patchwork of triple negatives.

Yea they're trying to sell a service, but would they blatantly lie about vandalism being a felony?  Maybe they would, I mean, it wouldn't be the first lie told by a lawyer.

Then the question becomes can Sean Payton be charged with vandalism, or is a fire alarm necessarily covered under something else.

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Jlowe22

Jlowe22

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2 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

I'd give him a couple years in jail to think about this. A real fire could have broke out and killed 45,000 people.

Only thing is, it was clear there was no fire because nobody had to evacuate.

But a real fire could have broken out afterwards, and you're down a fire alarm.  Although there are a bunch of them around the stadium.

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TENINCH

TENINCH

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1 minute ago, Jlowe22 said:

Only thing is, it was clear there was no fire because nobody had to evacuate.

But a real fire could have broken out afterwards, and you're down a fire alarm.  Although there are a bunch of them around the stadium.

Then give him jail for doing the Skol chant and mocking the Viking fan base during the playoffs last year.

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Woz

Woz

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Posted
Just now, Jlowe22 said:

Is this page correct, and could he be charged with Vandalism?

https://www.koffellaw.com/vandalism/

Not a lawyer I know.  I hate the law, specifically for these reasons.  Overly complex and loopholes/technicalities everywhere.

Not a lawyer, so I don't know if it is correct and/or if he could be charged under it. Just went looking through the Ohio state code for fire alarms and found where it hit.

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Woz

Woz

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Just now, Jlowe22 said:

Yea they're trying to sell a service, but would they blatantly lie about vandalism being a felony?  Maybe they would, I mean, it wouldn't be the first lie told by a lawyer.

Then the question becomes can Sean Payton be charged with vandalism, or is a fire alarm necessarily covered under something else.

Vandalism can still be a felony in Ohio. It just probably doesn't involve destroying a fire alarm. It might have to do with the cost to repair/replace the item that was vandalized or the import of the item (say, a historical document). Again, it depends.

However, if I were a betting man, based on my simple reading of that statute, Payton's legal liability in Ohio is a $500 fine. As I said, barring a truly salty Bengals fan as a judge, he's getting a fine and a stern talking to. His liability from the NFL Front Office is an open question, but I suspect if he just pays the fine, he can explain what happened and they'll say "tut tut."

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Jlowe22

Jlowe22

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Just now, Woz said:

Vandalism can still be a felony in Ohio. It just probably doesn't involve destroying a fire alarm. It might have to do with the cost to repair/replace the item that was vandalized or the import of the item (say, a historical document). Again, it depends.

However, if I were a betting man, based on my simple reading of that statute, Payton's legal liability in Ohio is a $500 fine. As I said, barring a truly salty Bengals fan as a judge, he's getting a fine and a stern talking to. His liability from the NFL Front Office is an open question, but I suspect if he just pays the fine, he can explain what happened and they'll say "tut tut."

Yea, I have no doubt the legal repercussions will be mild at worst, but I'm just curious as to what he could be potentially be charged with if they wanted to throw the book at him.

I'll also be surprised if Goodell doesn't fine him many times more than any legal fine.

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