packfanfb Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: The Packers are not 10-16-1 in a vacuum. Poor drafts, poor defensive talent, re-signings that provided a quarter of their anticipated value, Rodgers being injured, Montgomery making an idiot move, a Jones fumble that could have happened to any RB, four missed field goals, a BS roughing penalty that otherwise ends in an interception and a victory, Rodgers coming back against the Panthers before he was quite ready and having a bad game due to physical limitations. The Packers were very much in over 3/4 of those 27 games you mentioned. If you continue calling McCarthy's team 10-16-1 without acknowleding the massive amounts of things that you can't blame McCarthy for, yeah, I'm gonna put you in that infected fan base category. But do you put any blame on McCarthy? It sounds like you're absolving him of any blame based on the flaws you pointed out. At what point do you question his "fit" as the right coach in GB moving forward. Ignore the argument for a minute whether he's a good coach or not, is he still the right fit at coach on this team? Moreover, you know as well as I know and anyone else who follows football....when a player fumbles a ball, the coach ultimately is blamed. When a player throws a bad pass, the coach ultimately is blamed. When the team loses 6 straight road games (for whatever reason), the coach ultimately is blamed. When the team goes 10-16-1 over the last 2 seasons, the coach is blamed. These are not new trends in Green Bay. These are trends followed across the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, squire12 said: The reasons you are listing is what the CLE, DET, BUF, etc of the league use. Poor drafts, poor talent, FA failures, injuries, in game player mistakes, penalties, etc. Eventually, you are the product of your record. Perfectly put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: You think players have to follow the same rules? Seriously? Lol. The reason these sources are saying it's such a mess in the locker room is because Ted tried to force that ability to speak openly with emotion away from the players. That doesn't happen in the pros. The players can say whatever they want. They have guaranteed contracts tied to the salary cap. Coaches don't. Aaron's words are subtly said as to be open for the interpretation you're trying to poorly convince people of, but anyone with any sort of deciphering skills knows what he's saying. Also you keep saying this was some "power move" by Mac. Literally no one said that. It's as simple as Mac chose Cingretti over AVP, and he was wrong. Just like he was wrong bringing Philbin back. Hindsight? Sure, but Gute gets to use that, and that's why Mac will probably be fired. This is getting even more ridiculous. MM flat out stated this move was decided a year ago. You say that is coach speak and not true. Straight laughable. AVP stated he intended to "move forward". You say that is coach speak and not true. Straight laughable. Aaron said the move was "interesting". Which you apply a healthy dose of your interpretation to to decipher what he "really" meant. In your mind that is the only "truth" in this whole thing. Even more straight laughable. And yes, there are people calling this a power move. That's literally what I've been arguing against this entire time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, incognito_man said: This is getting even more ridiculous. MM flat out stated this move was decided a year ago. You say that is coach speak and not true. Straight laughable. AVP stated he intended to "move forward". You say that is coach speak and not true. Straight laughable. Aaron said the move was "interesting". Which you apply a healthy dose of your interpretation to to decipher what he "really" meant. In your kind that is the only "truth" in this whole thing. Even more straight laughable. And yes, there are people calling this a power move. That's literally what I've been arguing against this entire time.... Ha I'm done with you on this one. I will discuss Holy Saint Mac of 1265 Lombardi Ave with those who are OK admitting when the guy makes a move that doesn't work out. He should've left the QB coach position open, set a deadline of 1-2 weeks after he told AVP he wasn't going to be OC for him to seek options and AVP would be our coach right now. The mediocre retreads like we have now would be available throughout the off-season, there was no reason to move quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I can't wait until all of this is over, my god. This forum sucks to read this past year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, JBURGE said: I can't wait until all of this is over, my god. This forum sucks to read this past year Draft Day 2019 my friend. Nothing like two 1st round picks to rejuvenate the gang at FF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Even for those who don't think McCarthy bungled the change of QB coach, the very fact that the stock of his assistants fell so dramatically in 1 year is a huge negative. Being a member of a Mike McCarthy coaching staff is about as shaky ground as it gets right now. Obviously the fact he has minimal job security hurts but an equally negative black mark is the amount of turnover on his staffs. Alex Van Pelt went from a guy with OC aspirations to not having his contract renewed (firing) and having to take a lateral position on equally shaky ground in one year's time. And Edgar Bennett went from OC to a non-renewal (firing) to WR coach in that same time period. McCarthy would be scraping the bottom of the barrel for any staff changes if he were to proceed forward. Other than pointing out how bad the situation is, this is all wasted breath anyway since he's a goner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said: Even for those who don't think McCarthy bungled the change of QB coach, the very fact that the stock of his assistants fell so dramatically in 1 year is a huge negative. Being a member of a Mike McCarthy coaching staff is about as shaky ground as it gets right now. Obviously the fact he has minimal job security hurts but an equally negative black mark is the amount of turnover on his staffs. Alex Van Pelt went from a guy with OC aspirations to not having his contract renewed (firing) and having to take a lateral position on equally shaky ground in one year's time. And Edgar Bennett went from OC to a non-renewal (firing) to WR coach in that same time period. McCarthy would be scraping the bottom of the barrel for any staff changes if he were to proceed forward. Other than pointing out how bad the situation is, this is all wasted breath anyway since he's a goner. With Matt Campbell signing for 6 yrs $23 million to stay a Iowa St, what is your, I mean there next move? Is it totally out of the question to hire Alex Van Pelt as HC? How about Phlibon as HC and Van Pelt as the new OC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, jleisher said: With Matt Campbell signing for 6 yrs $23 million to stay a Iowa St, what is your, I mean there next move? Is it totally out of the question to hire Alex Van Pelt as HC? How about Phlibon as HC and Van Pelt as the new OC? The Packers need to go in a different direction for a variety of reasons. Rodgers shares blame here so reuniting him with his pal wouldn't exactly solve the issues on that side of the spectrum. The Campbell deal with Iowa State that you're referencing came last November btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 The more I look at college coaches to possible hire, I think not. Harbaugh would want more control, not going to happen. The Matt Campbell thing, a current NFL assistant matches his players coach type, that's Dave Toub Asst. HC/ST coach at KC. I can think of two former NFL coaches and current college coaches that fit the offensive minded HC, but nobody likes them, Lane Kiffin and Chip Kelly. If we're open minded enough to think Josh McDaniels will leave NE to coach in Green Bay, we should be open to one of those knuckle heads as a possibility. Another name that is interesting to me is Gary Patterson of TCU, and Tom Herman of Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr Anonymous said: The Packers need to go in a different direction for a variety of reasons. Rodgers shares blame here so reuniting him with his pal wouldn't exactly solve the issues on that side of the spectrum. The Campbell deal with Iowa State that you're referencing came last November btw. Thanks, thought it was just signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Ha I'm done with you on this one. I will discuss Holy Saint Mac of 1265 Lombardi Ave with those who are OK admitting when the guy makes a move that doesn't work out. He should've left the QB coach position open, set a deadline of 1-2 weeks after he told AVP he wasn't going to be OC for him to seek options and AVP would be our coach right now. The mediocre retreads like we have now would be available throughout the off-season, there was no reason to move quickly. Er...I already said I didn't like the move of hiring Philbin as OC....please spare us the hyperbole strawman. You are now 100% injecting an invented reality into your stance: that VP desired to remain here as QB coach. That flies so much in the face of reality it's absurd. VP pretty clearly wanted out. He didn't sign an extension. He viewed himself as coordinator material. Yet you think he would have been willing to sign on as QB coach here under the same rules MM has always had for coordinators despite VP literally saying he planned to move forward. Oookkkkk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, incognito_man said: Er...I already said I didn't like the move of hiring Philbin as OC....please spare us the hyperbole strawman. You are now 100% injecting an invented reality into your stance: that VP desired to remain here as QB coach. That flies so much in the face of reality it's absurd. VP pretty clearly wanted out. He didn't sign an extension. He viewed himself as coordinator material. Yet you think he would have been willing to sign on as QB coach here under the same rules MM has always had for coordinators despite VP literally saying he planned to move forward. Oookkkkk AVP signing an extension is like you signing a non-compete with any company outside of your current one. it would have limited his options of movement up the career ladder of coaching as GB and MM had a strong track record of denying coaches under contract the ability to interview for outside coaching options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said: Even for those who don't think McCarthy bungled the change of QB coach, the very fact that the stock of his assistants fell so dramatically in 1 year is a huge negative. Being a member of a Mike McCarthy coaching staff is about as shaky ground as it gets right now. Obviously the fact he has minimal job security hurts but an equally negative black mark is the amount of turnover on his staffs. Alex Van Pelt went from a guy with OC aspirations to not having his contract renewed (firing) and having to take a lateral position on equally shaky ground in one year's time. And Edgar Bennett went from OC to a non-renewal (firing) to WR coach in that same time period. McCarthy would be scraping the bottom of the barrel for any staff changes if he were to proceed forward. Other than pointing out how bad the situation is, this is all wasted breath anyway since he's a goner. He's a goner? Maybe. From what I learned about HR, when MM was put on notice with the one year extension, MM was given benchmarks he had to meet to be retained. That's SOP. What they are only Murphy, and the Executive Board know, but likely benchmarks for an NFL coach might be number of games won this year, and/or winning the NFC-North, or maybe getting a wild card seed. Simply a winning record might not be enough to save his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 minute ago, squire12 said: AVP signing an extension is like you signing a non-compete with any company outside of your current one. it would have limited his options of movement up the career ladder of coaching as GB and MM had a strong track record of denying coaches under contract the ability to interview for outside coaching options. Exactly. If he viewed himself as wanting to be a coordinator why would he want to stay in GB as QB coach? Legit debate points (IMHO) here are really: Does MMs method of blocking interviews hurt the staff makeup? Did MM make the right call with Philbin? I suspect I can be easily convinced both the above are legit criticisms of MM. But not this nonsense of him strong-arming AVP out of town to piss off Aaron. That's pure garbage IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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