The Colts might have dodged a coaching bullet in retrospect in regards to McDaniels

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Elky said:

 

Let's stop using Belicheck as the example of a coach who rubs the people the wrong way but still wins at a high level. Belicheck got a winning Mega Millions lottery ticket with a 6th round pick at QB who turned out to be a 1st ballot HoF who is willing to take significantly less money to build a competent team around him.

As all of those who tried to emulate the Belicheck way have/are proving, it doesn't work unless you have another Mega Million ticket burning a hole in your pocket.

[Soko]

I’m surprised NE fans are defending Josh. He’s not a bad OC - you can do much, much worse as an OC*. But he’s not an offensive genius or something, and based on his coaching stints, you could definitely say he’s more likely than not to be a mediocre HC.

*I say this as someone who is incredibly frustrated with McDaniels this season. He regressed to his 2013 playcalling.

[ET80]

2 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

What all time great offenses did weis call plays for in NE? Josh has the 2007 Pats(best ever) and the 2012 Pats. OBrien has the 11 Pats

 

He got good seasons out of Kyle Orton and Matt Cassell

I'd still call guys like Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan and Andy Reid as "once in a generation" minds over McDaniels. McVay is clearly the "once in a generation" mind of this current crop of young guys, given the current status of the Rams offense over the past two seasons.

I'll concede he's a very good mind and he's made chicken salad out of chicken excrement with Cassell, but McVay is the current head of the class. Shanahan is probably 2nd behind him. 

[bananabucket]

I hated the McDaniels hire, thank god he backed out.  I still can't understand what Ballard was thinking there.

 

Reich has been a godsend.   He's what the Colts are all about and have always been all about.  McDaniels is the polar opposite.

[BroncoBruin]

3 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

If I was josh I wouldn’t want to work for An alcoholic owner either. I’d rather coach Tom Brady and wait for a better opportunity which he will get. 

Also broncos fans need to stop being so damn bitter. It was like ten years ago get over it my god. 

You seem lost. This is a thread about Josh McDaniels as a HC. Figure it out. 

[BroncoBruin]

4 hours ago, childofpudding said:

It's disingenuous to suggest in retrospect that Xanders wasn't the actual GM for the 2011 draft (2012 I'll grant you). That's just post-Xanders, pro-Elway spin. Since Xanders left, Elway has shown that he's bad at drafting. Players drafted by the Broncos during Xanders official stint as GM have made 14 Pro Bowl appearances (13 if you don't count 2012). Players drafted by the Broncos since he left have made zero (1 if you count 2012). Elway is bad at drafting.

No. Xanders was GM in title only. The moment Elway was hired, he had final say in personnel moves and Xanders became an advisor. Let's not get caught up in semantics. 

[childofpudding]

35 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

No. Xanders was GM in title only. The moment Elway was hired, he had final say in personnel moves. It's actually kind of curious that you're so confident about this belief, right down to a 2012 cut-off. 

?? Xanders was officially GM through the 2012 draft, and I initially cited 2012 for him as part of my argument. I yielded 2012 because he was let go so soon after the 2012 draft.

If the Broncos only let Xanders GM for two years worth of drafts (with one of them being a month after he was hired when McDaniels had most of the decision-making power), then that actually reflects even poorly on them as an organization and on Elway as an executive. You hire a GM and remove all his powers after two years? Haha, that's horrible. But we all know that's not the truth. Xanders was still GM in 2011. That was largely his draft.

What's actually curious is how Broncos fans are so insistent that Elway was the real GM in 2011, more than a year before Xanders was fired. It's also curious that Broncos fans want Elway to get credit for the 2011 draft, considering the team has drafted zero Pro Bowlers since the 2013 draft, when Xanders was completely removed from the organization. Since 2013, who have the Broncos drafted that was any good, really? Bradley Roby? One good player in five years if you don't count rookies? Maybe two with Sutton if you do count rookies and want to make premature conclusions? In the two years of 2009 and 2010, Xanders drafted Moreno, Decker, Beadles and Thomas. So yeah, I think Xanders was more instrumental than Elway in drafting Miller, Franklin and Julius Thomas, because Xanders has a track record of decent drafting, and Elway doesn't. Elway has been great at FA pickups and bad at drafting.

[childofpudding]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

No. Xanders was GM in title only. The moment Elway was hired, he had final say in personnel moves and Xanders became an advisor. Let's not get caught up in semantics. 

He was GM in title only for more than a year? LOL at the Broncos and Elway if that was actually true.

Broncos fans with that revisionist history. Elway apologists as player and executive.

Anyway, we are a bit off-topic. McDaniels was bad for the Broncos, and Reich seems at this early stage to be good for the Colts. I think we can agree on that.

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, childofpudding said:

He was GM in title only for more than a year? LOL at the Broncos and Elway if that was actually true.

Broncos fans with that revisionist history. Elway apologists as player and executive.

Anyway, we are a bit off-topic. McDaniels was bad for the Broncos, and Reich seems at this early stage to be good for the Colts. I think we can agree on that.

Get that nonsense (and the tangent above that I'm not going to read) out of here. It's not revisionist history, it's actually understanding the structure of our own team's front office. But you can believe whatever you want with whatever amount of delusional confidence that necessitates. If you're just too bogged down in meaningless semantics to accept that his title didn't reflect his actual responsibilities, we can't help you. 

[childofpudding]

23 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Get that nonsense (and the tangent above that I'm not going to read) out of here. It's not revisionist history, it's actually understanding the structure of our own team's front office. But you can believe whatever you want with whatever amount of delusional confidence that necessitates. If you're just too bogged down in meaningless semantics to accept that his title didn't reflect his actual responsibilities, we can't help you. 

You telling me I'm bogged down in semantics is the ultimate pot calling the kettle black. Elway has a bad drafting record and there's no reason to believe he was the driving force behind the 2011 draft when he's had practically zero success in drafting from 2012-present. Meanwhile, Xanders had a record of draft success in 2009 and 2010, as I previously showed.

And if Xanders was GM in title only for more than a year, then as I said, LOL at the Broncos organization and Elway for that. You keep a fake GM on staff for more than a year? That's terrible. Truth hurts.

The only delusional ones are the Broncos fans (not all, but many) who think Elway walks on water. They're 18-24 since Manning left, and were last place in the division last year. If any other GM had that record over nearly three seasons, Elway would have fired him already.

[BroncoBruin]

3 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

You telling me I'm bogged down in semantics is the ultimate pot calling the kettle black. Elway has a bad drafting record and there's no reason to believe he was the driving force behind the 2011 draft when he's had practically zero success in drafting from 2012-present. Meanwhile, Xanders had a record of draft success in 2009 and 2010, as I previously showed.

And if Xanders was GM in title only for more than a year, then as I said, LOL at the Broncos organization and Elway for that. You keep a fake GM on staff for more than a year? That's terrible. Truth hurts.

The only delusional ones are the Broncos fans (not all, but many) who think Elway walks on water.

I'm not sure you understand what "pot calling kettle black" means since there's no hypocrisy exposed in this entire response...one of us can't get over two words with no consideration for context, and that would be you. And by the way, McDaniels made those draft picks. Xanders never had final say in personnel decisions at any point with Denver. 

He was kept on as a personnel advisor to help Elway get up to speed. Elway had the final say on personnel decisions from day one. The only reason you're viewing it through the lens of being a "fake GM" is because you can't comprehend the idea that, just maybe, a title does not have to fully reflect actual responsibilities. It's semantics you can't get over. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of Elway's work. Whether they were good picks or terrible picks is irrelevant; you're wrong about how the front office was structured and we're correcting you, that's it. If you actually spent time reading our forums or talking to Broncos fans, you'd know we're extremely critical of Elway and believe he should be on the hot seat. 

You managed to be wrong about every single thing here, somehow.

 

[childofpudding]

1 minute ago, BroncoBruin said:

I'm not sure you understand what "pot calling kettle black" means since there's no hypocrisy exposed in this entire response...one of us can't get over two words with no consideration for context, and that would be you. And by the way, McDaniels made those draft picks. Xanders never had final say in personnel decisions at any point with Denver. 

He was kept on as a personnel advisor to help Elway get up to speed. Elway had the final say on personnel decisions from day one. The only reason you're viewing it through the lens of being a "fake GM" is because you can't comprehend the idea that, just maybe, a title does not have to fully reflect actual responsibilities. It's semantics you can't get over. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of Elway's work. Whether they were good picks or terrible picks is irrelevant; you're wrong about how the front office was structured and we're correcting you, that's it. If you actually spent time reading our forums or talking to Broncos fans, you'd know we're extremely critical of Elway and believe he should be on the hot seat. 

You managed to be wrong about every single thing here, somehow.

 

I know how the front office was structured and is structured. Just because Elway had the final say and was/is power-hungry from the start doesnt mean Xanders wasnt the primary decision maker for that draft. Elway is bad at drafting and giving him credit for the 2011 draft is revisionist history.

Elway finally being on the hot seat from fans after 6 years of incompetent drafting helps prove my point, not yours.

[BroncoBruin]

10 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

I know how the front office was structured and is structured. Just because Elway had the final say and was/is power-hungry from the start doesnt mean Xanders wasnt the primary decision maker for that draft. Elway is bad at drafting and giving him credit for the 2011 draft is revisionist history.

Elway finally being on the hot seat from fans after 6 years of incompetent drafting helps prove my point, not yours.

No, you don't know how it was structured and is structured as evident from literally everything you've posted about the Broncos in this thread. Also, what kind of absurd logic is "Elway is bad at drafting...therefore, there's no way he could have made the 2011 picks"? That's really not how this works. Nobody has sustained runs of great drafting, everyone is batting below .400 over the long term, and it's easier to make picks at the top of rounds. 

Your point was that fans believe he walks (walks, as in, presently so) on water. I said fans believe he should be on the hot seat. No, that doesn't prove your point and there's really no way to spin it as such, try as you may. Nevermind that this tangent about Elway and Denver's lack of success was totally unrelated to the original point, that you're wrong about the front office structure. 

[BroncoBruin]

The power-hungry anecdote is also a great little throw-in. He didn't have to be power-hungry. He had the keys to the kingdom from day one. Just like McDaniels. 

[childofpudding]

1 minute ago, BroncoBruin said:

No, you don't know how it was structured and is structured as evident from literally everything you've posted about the Broncos in this thread. Also, what kind of absurd logic is "Elway is bad at drafting...therefore, there's no way he could have made the 2011 picks"? That's really not how this works. Nobody has sustained runs of great drafting, everyone is batting below .400 over the long term, and it's easier to make picks at the top of rounds. 

Your point was that fans believe he walks on water. I said fans believe he should be on the hot seat. No, that doesn't prove your point and there's really no way to spin it as such, try as you may. Nevermind that this tangent about Elway and Denver's lack of success was totally unrelated to the original point, that you're mistaken about the front office structure. 

Elway's success rate at drafting is nearly 0%. He's batting under .100.

I said many Broncos fans believe that Elway walks on water. Not all. The top thread in your team forum is about VJ getting fired, with most posters talking about how Elway needs to be scrutinized on who he picks for the next coach. That gives Elway leeway for at least another couple years - not exactly the hot seat you're proclaiming.