Week 13 GDT: Do we really have to go to Seattle?

[J-ALL-DAY]

17 minutes ago, Forge said:

I brought up donatel before. I think he's still under contract and the bears would have to give permission. Position coach to DC is actually considered a lateral move I'm pretty sure

Which I never understood to be honest. But I think Chicago would let him interview with us or anyone else at this point. 

[757-NINER]

4 hours ago, Justone2 said:

If you want someone experienced as DC you will need to get away from this system. Don't think anyone that has experience in this system will be hitting the market as a DC or it must be Kris Richard but i believe there is a chance he will be in the HC market.

I actually would welcome Richards. He has that Dallas secondary playing at a really high level and all their second year players in their secondary (Awzuike, Jordan Lewis) have improved and it's noticeable. Byron Jones has been playing lights out at CB and I think Richards has alot to do with that. Plus he has a great history with Sherm. His first stint as a DC didn't go as seamlessly as most thought but I be willing to take a chance he has improved. He would/should definitely do wonders for players like 'Spoon, Colbert, and Tartt in this scheme. 

[Justone2]

13 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I actually would welcome Richards. He has that Dallas secondary playing at a really high level and all their second year players in their secondary (Awzuike, Jordan Lewis) have improved and it's noticeable. Byron Jones has been playing lights out at CB and I think Richards has alot to do with that. Plus he has a great history with Sherm. His first stint as a DC didn't go as seamlessly as most thought but I be willing to take a chance he has improved. He would/should definitely do wonders for players like 'Spoon, Colbert, and Tartt in this scheme. 

I would too but i think there is a chance he either won't get a chance to interview for a DC job or he draws some interest for a HC job. But beside him there really aren't any candidates that have experience as a DC and run this scheme. 

 

But yeah Richard is one of the best DB coaches in the entire league.

[757-NINER]

8 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

I would too but i think there is a chance he either won't get a chance to interview for a DC job or he draws some interest for a HC job. But beside him there really aren't any candidates that have experience as a DC and run this scheme. 

 

But yeah Richard is one of the best DB coaches in the entire league.

Meh, I don't really see Dallas winning a playoff game and I seriously doubt he's a serious candidate for any HC gigs. He hasn't even proven himself as a DC yet and very few postional coaches make that leap from assistant to HC. So I think if Shanny were looking to make a change, we'd have a legitimate shot. Like you said, so few opportunities out there for this scheme, I think he would jump at the opportunity again. Then maybe he'd be considered for possible HC vacancies down the line.

[N4L]

Richard is their DC in all but name. He calls the plays and is their "passing game coordinator". Rob Marinelli seems to have some oversight, but it largly appears to be Richards defense 

I doubt he leaves that defense, Jerry probably won't let him go anywhere. So much talent for them upfront, why would he want to leave and come here? Same reason vrabel didn't come here. 

If Saleh stays I would imagine it's partly because Kyle couldn't find a better guy willing to come here 

[Forge]

6 minutes ago, N4L said:

If Saleh stays I would imagine it's partly because Kyle couldn't find a better guy willing to come here 

I've said it before, but I really don't think that Saleh is any real, legitimate trouble yet. Nothing to base that on, of course, just my own gut feeling. I think he's here another year. 

[N4L]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

I've said it before, but I really don't think that Saleh is any real, legitimate trouble yet. Nothing to base that on, of course, just my own gut feeling. I think he's here another year. 

They have to do something though. Not exactly sure what something is, but it needs to happen. 

Maybe it's something as simple as hire Scott mcglouan as a consultant this off-season? I wonder how him and Kyle did in Washington. That could make some sense. 

(It would also show Jed has no control, which would make it twice as sweet) 

[Justone2]

10 minutes ago, N4L said:

They have to do something though. Not exactly sure what something is, but it needs to happen. 

Maybe it's something as simple as hire Scott mcglouan as a consultant this off-season? I wonder how him and Kyle did in Washington. That could make some sense. 

(It would also show Jed has no control, which would make it twice as sweet) 

Don't believe Shanahan and McLoughan overlapped in Washington. 

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, N4L said:

They have to do something though. Not exactly sure what something is, but it needs to happen. 

Maybe it's something as simple as hire Scott mcglouan as a consultant this off-season? I wonder how him and Kyle did in Washington. That could make some sense. 

(It would also show Jed has no control, which would make it twice as sweet) 

The something is just get better players to be honest. Maybe they'll shock me and Saleh is gone, but I just dont' think it is super likely. Saleh appears to have the support of the players (Sherman has certainly spoken out on his behalf defending him). Whenever I've seen various writers address the subject, I haven't gotten the feeling that they think it's likely either. 

I'm not sure Scot M fixes anything. He'd come in to help the draft, but with guys like Peters and Mayhew already in the fold, plus Lynch as gm and Shanny having considerable input as the HC, I don't know how many cooks you want in the kitchen. 

[Justone2]

1 hour ago, 757-NINER said:

Meh, I don't really see Dallas winning a playoff game and I seriously doubt he's a serious candidate for any HC gigs. He hasn't even proven himself as a DC yet and very few postional coaches make that leap from assistant to HC. So I think if Shanny were looking to make a change, we'd have a legitimate shot. Like you said, so few opportunities out there for this scheme, I think he would jump at the opportunity again. Then maybe he'd be considered for possible HC vacancies down the line.

Who knows last year Mike Vrable who arguably made the Texans D worse in his single year as a DC got a chance as a HC. In the end is he gets interviews everything can happen and he does have a pretty large role in Dallas so don't think he wants to make that move.

[Justone2]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

The something is just get better players to be honest. Maybe they'll shock me and Saleh is gone, but I just dont' think it is super likely. Saleh appears to have the support of the players (Sherman has certainly spoken out on his behalf defending him). Whenever I've seen various writers address the subject, I haven't gotten the feeling that they think it's likely either. 

I'm not sure Scot M fixes anything. He'd come in to help the draft, but with guys like Peters and Mayhew already in the fold, plus Lynch as gm and Shanny having considerable input as the HC, I don't know how many cooks you want in the kitchen. 

Yeah better players would help for sure. Like i said i was on the Saleh should get a chance with better players side but man it is getting frustating that we really see no improvement from last year while i would argue we have better players now then we did(i understand losing Foster and having basically no FS hurts it). 

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

Yeah better players would help for sure. Like i said i was on the Saleh should get a chance with better players side but man it is getting frustating that we really see no improvement from last year while i would argue we have better players now then we did(i understand losing Foster and having basically no FS hurts it). 

The problem for me is that I don't hold Saleh accountable for the improvement / regression of individual players. I hold the positional coaches accountable for that. So I can't hold that against him. 

Now, don't get it twisted- I have not been super happy with Saleh's playcalls and strategies in a lot of instances. I see little overall adjustments made from him, and some of the things just outright bug me. He has taken far too long trying to fit Thomas' round peg into a square hole, I don't understand rushing three in the red zone like he did yesterday on one of the touchdowns, and the fact that we kept giving up the sidelines on the final drive against Green Bay I hold him accountable for. I don't think that he's a very good DC right now, so I'd be all for moving on if that is what we wished to do. I'm saying what I'm saying only because I just don't think that Lynch / Shanny will hold him accountable for that through 2 years. A big part of the appeal of this regime was the stability we were going to have. Canning your DC after two years does create a little instability, and Lynch and Shanny know very well that we simply don't have the players to effectively run the scheme. If they didn't, we wouldn't have made such a huge push on Mack. And it's not like Saleh can just go, "hey, I'm going to go out there and grab this edge rusher for us". That is roster construction and that's on the head of Lynch and Company, not Saleh, and I think that they know that and they won't hold him accountable for that either. It's hard to put your best foot forward when you're not given all of the tools you're needed to be successful, and make no mistake, a good leo is an absolute requirement for this scheme. It's a complete rebuild from 2 years ago. I mean, we signed Malcolm Smith to be a starter initially for gods sake lol. We acquired and extended marsh to be our premiere pass rusher from the edge. It really has to put in perspective where the overall talent level for the team is. We simply don't have the pieces and talent yet. The guys that we drafted on the defensive side of the football have largely been projects (and that includes Thomas, who was pretty raw coming out as a passrusher). The only two who weren't projects / conversions of some type were the linebackers. Reed probably wouldn't be a project if he were strictly a slot corner for us, but obviously we've toyed with him at safety and haven't played him much, if any from the slot from what I can remember.  Is the talent  better? Sure. But it was hard to get worse to be honest after 2015 & 2016. Those were arguably the least talented teams in the league. 

LIS, I have nothing to support the way I feel about the matter, just a gut feeling that he's going to get a third year. 

[Forge]

19 hours ago, oldman9er said:

Then figure out if Thomas can be that 5 tech next to the 1, because if not? he's one heck of a wasted resource as a backup 3 tech.

I feel like the move that is going to be made is that Thomas or Buckner eventually is utilized as an undersized 1 tech. I don't think that there's any other way to go about it unless you just completely remove Thomas from the field on early downs because if I had to chose between he and Armstead at the 5 tech, I'm taking the latter, who has simply been a better player this year and will be back next year. 

[Justone2]

11 minutes ago, Forge said:

The problem for me is that I don't hold Saleh accountable for the improvement / regression of individual players. I hold the positional coaches accountable for that. So I can't hold that against him. 

Now, don't get it twisted- I have not been super happy with Saleh's playcalls and strategies in a lot of instances. I see little overall adjustments made from him, and some of the things just outright bug me. He has taken far too long trying to fit Thomas' round peg into a square hole, I don't understand rushing three in the red zone like he did yesterday on one of the touchdowns, and the fact that we kept giving up the sidelines on the final drive against Green Bay I hold him accountable for. I don't think that he's a very good DC right now, so I'd be all for moving on if that is what we wished to do. I'm saying what I'm saying only because I just don't think that Lynch / Shanny will hold him accountable for that through 2 years. A big part of the appeal of this regime was the stability we were going to have. Canning your DC after two years does create a little instability, and Lynch and Shanny know very well that we simply don't have the players to effectively run the scheme. If they didn't, we wouldn't have made such a huge push on Mack. And it's not like Saleh can just go, "hey, I'm going to go out there and grab this edge rusher for us". That is roster construction and that's on the head of Lynch and Company, not Saleh, and I think that they know that and they won't hold him accountable for that either. It's hard to put your best foot forward when you're not given all of the tools you're needed to be successful, and make no mistake, a good leo is an absolute requirement for this scheme. It's a complete rebuild from 2 years ago. I mean, we signed Malcolm Smith to be a starter initially for gods sake lol. We acquired and extended marsh to be our premiere pass rusher from the edge. It really has to put in perspective where the overall talent level for the team is. We simply don't have the pieces and talent yet. The guys that we drafted on the defensive side of the football have largely been projects (and that includes Thomas, who was pretty raw coming out as a passrusher). The only two who weren't projects / conversions of some type were the linebackers. Reed probably wouldn't be a project if he were strictly a slot corner for us, but obviously we've toyed with him at safety and haven't played him much, if any from the slot from what I can remember.  Is the talent  better? Sure. But it was hard to get worse to be honest after 2015 & 2016. Those were arguably the least talented teams in the league. 

LIS, I have nothing to support the way I feel about the matter, just a gut feeling that he's going to get a third year. 

I dont think we traded for Marsh to be our premier edge rusher he just simply became that because the signing of a guy like Attaochu and the development of Pita just didn't work out. With Malcolm Smith i think a large part of why we brought him in is to help the rest of the team with the transition to this D and if he wouldn't have got injured last year he 100% would have been the starter alongside Foster. And yeah we probably need to change up our position coaches more then we must change Saleh but bringing in a new guy to run the D automatically brings a new group of position coaches so you basically have a catch all.

 

Like i said though if we give Saleh another year we really need to see some improvement in at least the basic fundamentals because man we need to see that.

[N4L]

28 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm not sure Scot M fixes anything. He'd come in to help the draft, but with guys like Peters and Mayhew already in the fold, plus Lynch as gm and Shanny having considerable input as the HC, I don't know how many cooks you want in the kitchen. 

He certainly has a proven track record for acquiring talent. He partially built our playoff rosters, he helped build seattle's championship teams, he made Washington a complete team, and Cleveland had a great draft this year. 

If nothing else, maybe he can help school our front office/GM with how to evaluate players and what he looks for. He has real GM experience, which is something we are lacking. Our GM has never worked in a front office before he was hired here. I do think that makes a difference. 

Maybe one offseason with Scotty helps us the next 3+ years as we can learn from him and apply his thought process down the road. We could also get the jump on the following draft and keep an eye on certain guys who are set to come out in 2020.

Seems like a good move all around, regardless of what we do with our coaching staff.